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Thoughts on 1/8th direct drive?

Thoughts on 1/8th direct drive?

Old 10-04-2010, 01:23 PM
  #16  
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been running direct drive in my rc8 for three years or so racing on 4-6s with all the aluminum stub axels and input cups on the diffs. nothing has worn out or broken. why add rotating mass of a clutch system instead of beeing smooth with your trigger finger? to each his own but again a plastic spur weighs about 8grams maybee the center diff as a whole around 28, how much does the clutch systems weigh? will it help? sure for some people it will make it easier to drive, will it save your driveline excessive wear, no not from what i have seen. after about 1000 races my driveline is no more wore out than it was when i bought the car.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:31 PM
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I run mostly direct drive in my RC8, 8ight, and Hyper 9E but I have played with the Tekno clutch. What I have found is that the parts that are going to wear will wear with either setup. Mainly this has been the front-center drive shaft on all three cars(the Losi because of the horizontal angle and the other two due to having rear gear boxes mounted on a kicked up chassis in the front end). For me, the clutch is just plain annoying since my driving style comes from an electric background. I did my own Traktion drive conversion and although it is better I still prefer the direct drive. The main thing that bothers me from a durability standpoint is the Tekno setup. It puts the force of the gears way out from the bearing on the motor and puts a lot of stress on the motor shaft. I have had a couple instances where for what ever reason(dirt, stuck shoe, etc) the clutch becomes unbalanced and oscillates. As in any unbalanced case, this puts a lot of stress on the bearing that supports it (the motor bearing). The best way to limit parts wear would be to use something like the rubber drive couplings that Fioroni used to make. It was basically center CVD cups that were two pieces and the engaged each other using silicon pads. It is very similar to how full size industrial motors are coupled to pumps.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by teeforb
i've tried direct drive, clutch, and traction drive... And I was pro direct drive... and after trying it, i totally love it! it's simple and little to no maintenance. It kinda reminds me of a mechanical current limiter. It removes all that tire spin on the low rpm, yet you still get that sense of direct drive... it's like almost perfect IMO... I say give it a shot...
I guess you mean Traction Drive?
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by morgoth
I guess you mean Traction Drive?
i meant to say (before using traction drive), i was pro direct drive... but after using traction drive, I liked it better than direct drive....
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:56 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by blade329
I have used nothing but direct drive since I got into 1/8th scale, on three different vehicles. No problems at all. For me, using a clutch or brakes is just another thing that can go wrong. If you gear properly, heat isn't an issue. Most guys that come from a Nitro background, migrate to the clutch/brake type systems since that is what they are used to. Setting brake bias is a helpful thing and it does bring motor heat down. As far as decoupling the motor, why would you need to? You don't get run away motors in electric like you can with a Nitro.
Blade,

To me I COMPLETELY agree with what you saying here and your subsequent post.

By decoupling the motor, I'm referring to the ability for the motor and drivetrain to slip under load. More in point, the ability for the drivetrain to slip in order to prevent failure. Think power on landings, power on in rough sections where the load becomes on/off. This instance puts a lot of strain on the drive system including motor rotors.

Last edited by itbvolks; 10-04-2010 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:08 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by kufman
I run mostly direct drive in my RC8, 8ight, and Hyper 9E but I have played with the Tekno clutch. What I have found is that the parts that are going to wear will wear with either setup. Mainly this has been the front-center drive shaft on all three cars(the Losi because of the horizontal angle and the other two due to having rear gear boxes mounted on a kicked up chassis in the front end). For me, the clutch is just plain annoying since my driving style comes from an electric background. I did my own Traktion drive conversion and although it is better I still prefer the direct drive. The main thing that bothers me from a durability standpoint is the Tekno setup. It puts the force of the gears way out from the bearing on the motor and puts a lot of stress on the motor shaft. I have had a couple instances where for what ever reason(dirt, stuck shoe, etc) the clutch becomes unbalanced and oscillates. As in any unbalanced case, this puts a lot of stress on the bearing that supports it (the motor bearing). The best way to limit parts wear would be to use something like the rubber drive couplings that Fioroni used to make. It was basically center CVD cups that were two pieces and the engaged each other using silicon pads. It is very similar to how full size industrial motors are coupled to pumps.

This too me is exactly what I'm referring too. Like I said, I RUN a slipperential now currently in my converted mbx6t. The question is, what's it really buying me. I find it hard to believe many guys are really using the slipper as a tuning aid in power application. I simply use it for driveline protection under load. I come from 1/12 onroad so throttle control isn't generally problematic for me as compared to a lot of early nitro converts.

As mentioned above, the added complexity is one issue. Maintenance being what it is. Cost isn't a factor here as I already own one of the systems. For me it's looking at what performance advantage can/does it offer? If it's not making me faster or more consistent, I need to evaluate whether it needs to be there.

For me, I'm not sure the slipperential is buying me anything other than driveline protection. Based on what I'm hearing here, it sounds as though most guys driveline's are holding up fine without it. That being what it is, makes me question why I need a more complicated, theoretically less reliable system...???

I think there are great tuning options with the traktion drive system. The problem I have is the potential to wipe motors, bearings, etc out. That and it makes packaging more complicated and again adds to the complexity of the system as a whole.

The beauty of true direct drive as I see it is, with the addition of a diff mounted motor mount, mesh is much better controlled so the potential for using a plastic spur exists. This reduces driveline rotational mass which decreases motor load as well as decrease some overall truck weight (in my case). This also reduces drivetrain friction which also helps with motor temps. The question is, is it another point source of failure.....
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:14 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by SuperEk4
Direct has alot of stress on the diff n drive train, I used to wheelie alot using 6s but now with rcm slipper diff it's alot better

While I do agree with you, aren't you the genetleman who saw all sorts of out-drive wobble from worn end caps on your slipperential


I should preface all of this by saying I love RCM's stuff including the slipperential. I've not had a single issue with my system in use. I'm just merely inquiring as to whether it's something that's really needed?
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:31 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by blade329
I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I have run my Ve8 for a year and my driveline isn't worn out. All I have to change is the rear outdrives. My pinions and diffs are fine. How much more is the Slipperential really going to save me?
I'm not saying it's not a good thing. I'm sure the Slipper works fine for a lot of people. The idea though that your entire drivetrain will fail quicker, if you don't have one, is not entirely true. That has more to do with driving style, driving conditions and proper maintenance.
I've raced e 1/8 scale on outdoor tracks for 3 years now.. things I've found.

1) direct drive does wear pinions and you will go through a few per season if you race weekly
2) direct drive does wear driveline parts faster, but mostly the center diff out drives and center cvd's. The axles wear the same on either setup.
3) direct drive runs 10-20 degrees hotter no matter the gearing (motor brakes)

I've never used the slipperential and will never use it.. to be honest I'd run direct drive before using it, just my personal opinion... costs too much requires too much attention. Again just an opinion.

What do I consider the best setup? Tekno's traktion drive, w/ mechanical brakes.

Motors will last longer and run cooler every day w/ a mechanical brake setup.. not to mention you stress your ESC less. I've run the same brake servo in my truggy now for 2yrs w/o any issues and it's a junky spektrum servo that came w/ my dx 3.0 way back when.. LOL. The traction drive can be used w/o mech brakes but for a couple oz it assures a much longer life span on a lot of parts. I'm not sure exactly why but at least in my 8ight-e the centerline parts (ends and outdrives on the center) all seem to last longer. My best guess is the traction drive offers limited slip taking the edge off the initial burst of energy hitting the driveline and over time saving you wear and tear. I do actually have the standard clutch spring setup in my truggy right now, but have been thinking of switching it back to traktion.. I tend to agree w/ the comment about super tight technical turns, it is a lot easier to overshoot something w/ the clutch vs the direct iMO. That doesn't mean you can't do it or master that part of the track, it just means it's a little easier w/ the direct drive setup.

my2c


I'll be running v4 tekno next season traktion drives in both my buggy and truggy.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:43 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I've raced e 1/8 scale on outdoor tracks for 3 years now.. things I've found.

1) direct drive does wear pinions and you will go through a few per season if you race weekly
2) direct drive does wear driveline parts faster, but mostly the center diff out drives and center cvd's. The axles wear the same on either setup.
3) direct drive runs 10-20 degrees hotter no matter the gearing (motor brakes)

I've never used the slipperential and will never use it.. to be honest I'd run direct drive before using it, just my personal opinion... costs too much requires too much attention. Again just an opinion.

What do I consider the best setup? Tekno's traktion drive, w/ mechanical brakes.

Motors will last longer and run cooler every day w/ a mechanical brake setup.. not to mention you stress your ESC less. I've run the same brake servo in my truggy now for 2yrs w/o any issues and it's a junky spektrum servo that came w/ my dx 3.0 way back when.. LOL. The traction drive can be used w/o mech brakes but for a couple oz it assures a much longer life span on a lot of parts. I'm not sure exactly why but at least in my 8ight-e the centerline parts (ends and outdrives on the center) all seem to last longer. My best guess is the traction drive offers limited slip taking the edge off the initial burst of energy hitting the driveline and over time saving you wear and tear. I do actually have the standard clutch spring setup in my truggy right now, but have been thinking of switching it back to traktion.. I tend to agree w/ the comment about super tight technical turns, it is a lot easier to overshoot something w/ the clutch vs the direct iMO. That doesn't mean you can't do it or master that part of the track, it just means it's a little easier w/ the direct drive setup.

my2c


I'll be running v4 tekno next season traktion drives in both my buggy and truggy.

With the mugen, I don't think we see the same amount of center driveline wear you guys do because of the reduced driveline angles.

Same plan here regarding the V4 Chassis setup for my Mugen. Thus far, plans are Elite motor mount and stock diff with the V4 setup. Lightest setup you can run I think plus should be very very reliable.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:00 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I've raced e 1/8 scale on outdoor tracks for 3 years now.. things I've found.

1) direct drive does wear pinions and you will go through a few per season if you race weekly
2) direct drive does wear driveline parts faster, but mostly the center diff out drives and center cvd's. The axles wear the same on either setup.
3) direct drive runs 10-20 degrees hotter no matter the gearing (motor brakes)

.
1. Not true if you are running plastic spurs. I have never worn out a pinion in my 3 years of racing. I have only killed 1 spur and that was my mistake, I forgot to tighten the motor bolts.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kufman
1. Not true if you are running plastic spurs. I have never worn out a pinion in my 3 years of racing. I have only killed 1 spur and that was my mistake, I forgot to tighten the motor bolts.
I've seen too many plastic spurs throw a tooth to ever both with them, too often in key races (mains). If you have good luck and don't ever have issues stay with it.. I'll agree with you that if you can run a plastic spur, you won't wear pinions.. But you'll never catch me running anything but the steel ones, hence the wear issue.

PS there is no way racing weekly you've run just two spurs.. in 3 years.. unless you ran just a handfull of races per season or if you repalce your parts yearly in the off season.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blade329
I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I have run my Ve8 for a year and my driveline isn't worn out. All I have to change is the rear outdrives. My pinions and diffs are fine. How much more is the Slipperential really going to save me?
But that's what I was trying to say too in a way, in the second part of my post. I don't know how much the Slipperential has helped because I never ran without it, and have no comparison. Likewise, you won't know how much or little a Slipperential would make a difference in your Ve8. Maybe the Slipperential would increase the life of the driveline by a month, maybe a year, maybe barely at all. That's the million dollar question: is a $100 Slipperential worth it. I feel it is (but also the traction control aspect has a lot to do with that), you may not. Maybe for $50 it would be worth it to you, or $30. It's cost vs (perceived) benefit.

In all likelihood there will probably never be a good unbiased test showing the benefit one way or the other, since most of the evidence is anecdotal. The conditions and frequency of how we run our vehicles varies so greatly that one person with direct drive might go a year without changing driveline components, while another person with a Slipperential might be changing parts every month (because the individual drives more, or harder, or rougher terrain, etc.) It wouldn't be fair to try to compare the two, unless they are run at the same track, same frequency, same driving style, same electronics setup, etc.

In the end it boils down to what you feel works best based on your own experimentation and experience.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by itbvolks
While I do agree with you, aren't you the genetleman who saw all sorts of out-drive wobble from worn end caps on your slipperential


I should preface all of this by saying I love RCM's stuff including the slipperential. I've not had a single issue with my system in use. I'm just merely inquiring as to whether it's something that's really needed?
Lol u recognize me yes I change the diff caps n it's ok. I like rcm slip diff as failure is almost zero even with no diff oil the diff still can run.

I find it important to protect the front n back diff gear as I have seen 3 cars diff failed in the same main before n was the one who did not fail win the race.

I got alot of spares n a spare rcm diff just in case

My truggy n buggy has rcm slip diff I hate wheelies

Btw I can't use tekno as my Helios can't support it. So the best way is rcm

Can reverse somemore
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperEk4
Lol u recognize me yes I change the diff caps n it's ok. I like rcm slip diff as failure is almost zero even with no diff oil the diff still can run.

I find it important to protect the front n back diff gear as I have seen 3 cars diff failed in the same main before n was the one who did not fail win the race.

I got alot of spares n a spare rcm diff just in case

My truggy n buggy has rcm slip diff I hate wheelies

Btw I can't use tekno as my Helios can't support it. So the best way is rcm

Can reverse somemore


What a good point.. I didn't even mention the rear diff, with the buggy when I did run direct drive I didn't have much issues with the rear diff but when I was running direct drive in my truggy I tore up 2 diff's, and I was shimming and checking the condition. I've since went the the clutch and will soon most likely swap the springs and setup as traktion drive, but zero diff issues..
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I've seen too many plastic spurs throw a tooth to ever both with them, too often in key races (mains). If you have good luck and don't ever have issues stay with it.. I'll agree with you that if you can run a plastic spur, you won't wear pinions.. But you'll never catch me running anything but the steel ones, hence the wear issue.

PS there is no way racing weekly you've run just two spurs.. in 3 years.. unless you ran just a handfull of races per season or if you repalce your parts yearly in the off season.
Actually, I run my stuff more than every weekend because I drive them in the street after work. Plastic works very well and last a long time if you use them correctly. First off, you can't use the Tekno motor mount with plastic spurs. I have been running the RC-Monster mount with a Losi diff fitted into my RC8 for the last two years. I also ran my 8ight with the Losi mount all of this summer and the spur still looks great. I did make a mistake, it has been two years on the same spur not 3. If there are no other failures (diff bearing, motor mount, pinion set screw) there is no reason that plastic spurs can't last a long time.
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