R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Like Tree44Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-20-2014, 11:20 PM   #14281
Tech Regular
 
Azagar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 293
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

You can go the avid slipper clutch route, they have a 69 as an option. Even a 66 now which I tried but requires a 36+ pinion in order for it to make contact on the spur.
__________________
Team Durango DEX210
Avid | AKA | Exotek | Jconcepts | KO Propo | Lunsford | Tekin | Turnigy Nano-tech
Azagar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 02:44 AM   #14282
Tech Fanatic
 
snowman_evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gold Coast, Queenland
Posts: 919
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to snowman_evil
Default

Has anyone tested much of the MM3 vs MM4 setup? I'm currently running MM3 and have heard and seen on durangos website that apparently the MM4 is meant to give more rear traction with the way the motor spins and it's effect on the car etc.

Anyone tried both? Thoughts on both?
__________________
DEX410V3 - Tekin - Spektrum - Panther
GCRC Raceway - "Lightning"
snowman_evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 07:31 AM   #14283
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman_evil View Post
Has anyone tested much of the MM3 vs MM4 setup? I'm currently running MM3 and have heard and seen on durangos website that apparently the MM4 is meant to give more rear traction with the way the motor spins and it's effect on the car etc.

Anyone tried both? Thoughts on both?
If you go back a couple of pages, there was a discussion on MM3 vs MM4.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...hread-945.html
__________________
* Team Great Hobbies * Team Powers * Exotek *
http://www.sidsraceway.com
Dino_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 07:57 AM   #14284
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,561
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I personally prefer MM3 since I feel that MM4 is a bandaid for an improper amount of weight on the rear wheels. While I don't subscribe to the heavier is always better mentality, you do need some weight on the tires to help them grip. A mid motor car has less weight on the rear wheels than a rear motor car does. The solution was to run a 4 gear setup so that more weight is shifted rearwards during acceleration. You can tell this is happening by the fact that MM4 cars can wheelie on nearly any surface. Once you pull the front wheels off the ground, all of your vehicle weight is on the rear wheels. In this regards it works.

Unfortunately many people have a problem with rear end side bite during off power corner entry. The rear end likes to slide out. On high grip this isn't a problem but it can be anywhere else. There just isn't as much weight on the rear wheels and a rear motor car will go right around you here. The solution is to get weight back on them. With an MM4 car you could obviously just get back on the throttle but then you wouldn't be steering . That's a problem in a corner! This huge weight shift taking weight off of the front wheels, the turning wheels, is also why MM4 cars may have a harder time getting back on power out of a corner. A proper cornering technique is to do all of your braking in a straight line before you get to the corner. You should be getting back on power right as you start turning. You can't drive an MM4 car this way. You need to coast around most of the corner unless it's very high grip.

An MM3 car with a little weight added to the back drives very neutral. With no rear kick and that weight, forward grip during acceleration isn't a problem. You also don't have the issue of on power lack of steering in a corner. Artificial weight shift is a bandaid to a greater problem. Unfortunately is causes more of it's own.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 10:01 AM   #14285
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

My feeling on MM3 and MM4 is that MM3 creates a car that is very flat. It doesn't respond to throttle input and braking in the usual way a typical RM car would. A RM car will shift its weight to the rear under power (aiding with rear traction/forward bite) and a MM3 car will NOT. Same concept under braking, an MM3 car will not shift much weight under braking. This tendency to remain flatter or more neutral to throttle and braking input, sometimes this can make the car easier to drive however I personally have found this can make the car hard to jump. You will not have much control over the attitude of the car in the air, front to back as left to right is controlled by steering in air.

Hope that helps!
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 10:37 AM   #14286
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Thumbs up

I'm currently working on my MM4 setup with a shorty pack. I have my battery all the way back against the stopper and my ESC is in front of my battery. I run my receiver on the left with my wires on right to try and create good left right balance. Micro receiver is only 6 grams and 10AWG wires are not light. I've been running this setup on medium to high bite clay type tracks. OCRC and SCVRC here in California. I'm happy to go into detail about the setup if anyone wants, but I don't' wanna hog the pages here. So far my setup is pretty good, I'm about 1 second off the lap pace I'd like to be. Trying to get into the 18s times at SCVRC. I have a good amount of rear side bite and when I want a little more forward traction I usually try adding toe in and the rear hubs via the blocks.

Here's a pic to help the visual….As with any config battery placement is critical. I can move my battery up quite a bit and this really changes the car.

Shorty pack has been the best "upgrade" I've made. Changes everything, now all my weight is in the center and the car is super light.

All of this aside, it's always best to try each setup for yourself. That's the best part about the DEX210 is that you have so many options for setup. You really can build it for any track. MM3/MM4, RM3/RM4?? etc.
Attached Thumbnails
Durango DEX210 Thread-img_0455.jpg  
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 11:27 AM   #14287
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,561
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

MM3 transfers weight to the rear just fine. It's static weight that matters most. Jumping really isn't a problem. You don't need a car that can do backflips off of jumps. Let off of the throttle slightly as you approach the jump and then gun it up the face. If your springs are balanced you'll jump slightly nose up. Hitting the brakes will bring the nose down a little if necessary. There's no need for it to be any more extreme and it is certainly no worse than an RM3 car in the air. The flatter driving profile allows the car to be far more controllable.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #14288
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

As they say…to each their own. Fred I say this with love and jest so please put your humor hat on. I'm coming to Texas to settle this!

All jokes aside. I usually agree with Fred about most things. We just have a difference of opinion here. That being said I have not gone back to MM3 since I first tried it and hated it. It is quite possible the car wasn't setup right in many ways and I've changed so much since. I ran mm3 for a couple of months and hated the way it jumped. Some of us like to hit the jumps full speed and pull the nose all the way up so the chassis is vertical to slow down (air drag brake) and then tap the brakes to bring the nose back down for a nose down landing. This is really only necessary when you have a larger triple or quad and generally you are up in the air for several feet distance and 5-8 feet vertically. I found it very difficult to do this with my MM3 setup. Fred makes a great point here that the car's jumping attitude has a lot to do with static weight distribution. (it's all about balance isn't it!)

All that being said I really should go back to MM3 with my current battery and spring setup and compare as it's been too long since I have tried. Good thing I think my wiring won't have to change….
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 12:55 PM   #14289
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,561
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

We're all friends here!

The one thing I will say is that unless you can find a way to run saddles, MM3 isn't as good. I've been a recent convert to saddle packs and wish Durango would have given us the ability to run them side by side without custom work being necessary. I'm always updating and trying new things so perspective does change from time to time. There was a time when I swore by MM4 and a sideways shorty. That was when I had my X6^2. Then I found a way that I like better!

I actually don't think static weight distribution has any effect on jumping attitude. At least not much. Then again it shouldn't. Any effect is purely by aerodynamic drag. It's more about wheel rates being balanced front to rear.

Incidentally, one of the fastest cars here, even on very low grip, is a Team C TM2 which has no artificial weight shift from motor rotation. The guy is a really good driver too though. He has a little weight added in the rear. That car layout actually makes the most sense to me.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 01:40 PM   #14290
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

I agree with you Fred on the saddle pack stuff. I was running MM3 with in line saddle packs before. Seeing the B5M with it's square pack in the middle seemed much more logical. Don't get me wrong I really dig the shorty pack inline center idea. The car seems very nimble left to right. It would be nice to see more versatility in placement though.

I may have mistaken what you said about static weight and jumping. Seemed like you meant the two sentences to be taken together. I"m also confused about static weight having an affect on aerodynamic drag. Aerodynamic drag is all about surface area…..What did you mean?

The TM2 car, is it setup so the driveline and the motor are turning in opposite directions to help counter the torque steering effect?
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 02:28 PM   #14291
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,561
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Actually I'm referring to the old feather vs bowling ball physics example. In a vacuum with no air resistance they fall at the same speed. Weight is irrelevant. However with air, the feather has far more drag in proportion to it's mass and therefore falls slower. The weight of each end really has no effect on nose up or down flying. It's the drag at each end that may affect it a bit. I've found with balanced suspensions that it doesn't matter what type of car it is. They all fly basically the same from an orientation standpoint.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 05:19 PM   #14292
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

Fred rocks
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 11:27 AM   #14293
Tech Regular
 
M3Man03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 448
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Having a problem that I haven't seen before in my DEX210.

I switched it to RM4 configuration and found that the side of the car with the nut in the diff outdrive seems to bind when the suspension is at half or near full compression.

I'm running the ball diff.

I don't remember having any issues like this in RM3 or even in MM4. I ground down the dogbone so that it's flush with the ears that stick off and it's better but still hits the plastic from the diff nut under full compression.

It's like I need a 64mm drive shaft instead of the 65mm ones that are standard.
__________________
Team Durango DESC210R / DEX210 / DEX410 / DETC410 / SJF01-F1 / Tamiya 416x / TE-Maxx 3.3 / OFNA DM-1e
M3Man03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 02:02 PM   #14294
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 246
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Maybe check that your camber setting hasnt changed, is the diff tight enough?
thefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 04:46 PM   #14295
Tech Legend
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: West Fargo, North Dakota
Posts: 29,531
Trader Rating: 240 (100%+)
Default

hey guys, well I took the plunge after seeing a deal on a dex210 that I couldn't pass up.

Anyway, the surfaces I will be running it on this summer are low traction dirt, like black dirt unless something changes. Tires that are popular at least in 1/8 scale in those conditions range from calibers to blockades.

Another track also can be loose, but is more hard packed, I believe in 1/8 scale when loose blockades or holeshot style in super sort seems to work well.

Anyway, all that said I am trying to piece together what upgrades I should look for that will help the most in these conditions.

Right now since its a V1 car and looks to be the kit version, not the RTR, I am thinking of upgrading it to V2 specs as far as things that will help the most for traction.

I am also looking at other things for durability.

I didn't see anything on the very first page so I figure why not ask here.

So, with all that said, what all do you recommend?

Lastly, what is the latest word on converting to 12mm hex front and rear as far as parts needed and durability?

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to trying the vehicle out.
__________________
Member - Red River Radio/Control Car Club
< Tekno EB48SL / SCT410.3 | Tekno EB410 x 2 | Yokomo YZ-2 DTM x 2 | LC Racing EMB-1 Buggies and Truggies >
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
St Ives RC Club B4Bandit Australian Racing 16584 12-06-2017 03:53 AM
EPMTs check in here. (a subsidiary of TNT) overtki11 Singapore R/C Racers 55470 05-08-2017 12:57 AM
Team Durango DEX410 ASH93A Australian Racing 925 04-08-2013 10:51 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:47 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net