78LikesDurango DEX210 Thread
09-05-2012, 11:55 AM
#7561
Originally Posted by Jonny5
Dark blue front and light blue rear. They are good for a starting point, but most wind up one or two rates softer in the front and one or two rates firmer in the rear.
the suggested setup for our track was
- stock springs,stock 6 hole pistons,32.5 oil in R,35wt in front, MM3 configuration.. MM4 was pushy while accellerating out of corners.
- 20* caster in the front end..
09-05-2012, 12:03 PM
#7562
Originally Posted by Jonny5
32/69 seems overgeared to me. Try a 75 pinion also, the larger spur gear, even with the same ratio as a smaller spur, will generate more torque due to it having more leverage.
First, make sure it's not your diff slipping. Then adjust your slipper on the track, not on the bench (after all you don't race on the bench, at least not with cars anyway
) I try to have someone in pit lane with a slipper wrench to tighten/loosen if needed before a race, especially if track conditions change though the night. And once you're close, small adjustments make a big difference- a 1/4 or even an 1/8 of a turn can be all you need. If you can't get it right on the track, maybe try a new spring. There have been some people who couldn't get it tight enough, but it sounds like yours is getting tight enough, just not getting fine tuned where you want it.
First, make sure it's not your diff slipping. Then adjust your slipper on the track, not on the bench (after all you don't race on the bench, at least not with cars anyway
) I try to have someone in pit lane with a slipper wrench to tighten/loosen if needed before a race, especially if track conditions change though the night. And once you're close, small adjustments make a big difference- a 1/4 or even an 1/8 of a turn can be all you need. If you can't get it right on the track, maybe try a new spring. There have been some people who couldn't get it tight enough, but it sounds like yours is getting tight enough, just not getting fine tuned where you want it.Are the AE pads acceptable? Is there a particular part number I should be using? I did not use the V2 parts, just the standard b4 slipper pads. Maybe I should just put on the stock pads? Once again thanks for all the help.
09-05-2012, 04:01 PM
#7563
Tech Champion
iTrader: (520)
Originally Posted by zipperfoot
Diffs not slipping. Thanks for the info though. I start on the bench and fine tune on the track. As far as fine tuning, I always make small adjustments. I never go more than an 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time just for that reason. The whole reason I asked the question in the first place was because I have built many a diff and slipper, and have never had it change on me so drastically from just about perfect one day to crazy tight the next. Thought maybe there was a known issue or fix someone was aware of.
Are the AE pads acceptable? Is there a particular part number I should be using? I did not use the V2 parts, just the standard b4 slipper pads. Maybe I should just put on the stock pads? Once again thanks for all the help.
Are the AE pads acceptable? Is there a particular part number I should be using? I did not use the V2 parts, just the standard b4 slipper pads. Maybe I should just put on the stock pads? Once again thanks for all the help.
09-05-2012, 04:29 PM
#7564
Originally Posted by flame56mx
I am curious about the AE pads as well. The 210 pads are a tick smaller, as i noticed when I had to squeeze the AE pads in my 210 spur.They are close, but not exact, maybe one of them isn't seated all the way?
09-05-2012, 08:04 PM
#7568
Originally Posted by Raul Garcia
Alex, I have a new red clay indoor track opening Friday. Just like Motorama .I can't wait.
I've got my 210 back together as well. Have the +8 carbon chassis, along with Kyosho front hexes. Getting another Speed Passion in a few days.
Originally Posted by Raul Garcia
I use Garodisc pads for my 210 without issues.. Associated pads are too thin I believe.
I also finally got around to installing my Tresrey hubs and motor plate. Some very nice pieces . Theres a lot of nice things on my buggy.
I also finally got around to installing my Tresrey hubs and motor plate. Some very nice pieces . Theres a lot of nice things on my buggy.
09-05-2012, 08:49 PM
#7569
Tech Apprentice
Originally Posted by Jonny5
32/69 seems overgeared to me. Try a 75 pinion also, the larger spur gear, even with the same ratio as a smaller spur, will generate more torque due to it having more leverage.
By definition, Gear Ratio, Torque Ratio, and Mechanical Advantage are all equal (i.e. the gear ratio is the torque ratio is the mechanical advantage). If two different pinion/spur combinations achieve the same gear ratio, they have the same torque ratio.
There may be reasons to prefer achieving a given gear ratio with larger gears. More teeth being engaged at any given time, the larger gears may run smoother. Or longer gear life because wear is being distributed over more teeth.
09-05-2012, 11:49 PM
#7570
Regarding turnbuckles and ball cups...
The Lunsford package seems to be popular, but what are some of the other options?
Losi 22 cups are 4.8mm as well as the Kyosho. Would i need to change out the turnbuckles as well? Both options seem to have shorter cups, especially compared to the stock rear 210 cups with the elbow shape. Would the stock turnbuckles be long enough?
The Losi cups are in stock at my local shop. Anyone tried these?
I am not going to change the stock ones unless they start popping off like so many have. Just want to be ready if/when it happens.
The Lunsford package seems to be popular, but what are some of the other options?
Losi 22 cups are 4.8mm as well as the Kyosho. Would i need to change out the turnbuckles as well? Both options seem to have shorter cups, especially compared to the stock rear 210 cups with the elbow shape. Would the stock turnbuckles be long enough?
The Losi cups are in stock at my local shop. Anyone tried these?
I am not going to change the stock ones unless they start popping off like so many have. Just want to be ready if/when it happens.
09-06-2012, 04:52 AM
#7572
Tech Champion
iTrader: (76)
Originally Posted by parallelfish
No, one cannot divorce the spur gear from the pinion, and say the bigger spur generates more torque. The spur gear has to be viewed in relation to the pinion gear used.
By definition, Gear Ratio, Torque Ratio, and Mechanical Advantage are all equal (i.e. the gear ratio is the torque ratio is the mechanical advantage). If two different pinion/spur combinations achieve the same gear ratio, they have the same torque ratio.
There may be reasons to prefer achieving a given gear ratio with larger gears. More teeth being engaged at any given time, the larger gears may run smoother. Or longer gear life because wear is being distributed over more teeth.
By definition, Gear Ratio, Torque Ratio, and Mechanical Advantage are all equal (i.e. the gear ratio is the torque ratio is the mechanical advantage). If two different pinion/spur combinations achieve the same gear ratio, they have the same torque ratio.
There may be reasons to prefer achieving a given gear ratio with larger gears. More teeth being engaged at any given time, the larger gears may run smoother. Or longer gear life because wear is being distributed over more teeth.
Wow such clarification offers such confusion. I couldn't agree more with you definition of ratios and leverage, but truly you should put your theory on the dirt and come back and report.
On a direct drive car such as 1/10 pan cars, 1/12 pan cars, ratios are much simpler, roll out can be calculated to achieve a goal. Variables still effect the end result, chassis weight, battery type and c rating, speedo setup, tire size, even the wire to the motor in length and size(gauge).
You add all those variables, then you add dirt, out of balance tires, a geared transmission, and simply enough traction, changes with one tooth on a 48p gear.
At Motorama 2011 my good friend was running 17.5 SCT, he complained all day he's getting walked on the straight. He kept gearing, gearing the way the faster guy was gearing, by adding teeth to the pinion, to reach the ratio, finally he couldn't move the motor any farther. He finally listened to me in the last round to change the spur to a smaller, while almost retaining the same pinion, he went on the track, and locked in Tq. He said, he couldn't believe the difference the way the truck drove, handle, and felt.
Also running such small spur gears is for motor movement. This is a popular tuning tool especially with a mid motor car. The smaller the spur, the farther the motor moves to the rear of the car, and also creates a pendulum effect on the layshaft, making a smoother on and off throttle transition which makes driving seem more fluid.
09-06-2012, 07:24 AM
#7573
Tech Apprentice
Originally Posted by Raul Garcia
And then..........
Wow such clarification offers such confusion. I couldn't agree more with you definition of ratios and leverage, but truly you should put your theory on the dirt and come back and report.
On a direct drive car such as 1/10 pan cars, 1/12 pan cars, ratios are much simpler, roll out can be calculated to achieve a goal. Variables still effect the end result, chassis weight, battery type and c rating, speedo setup, tire size, even the wire to the motor in length and size(gauge).
You add all those variables, then you add dirt, out of balance tires, a geared transmission, and simply enough traction, changes with one tooth on a 48p gear.
At Motorama 2011 my good friend was running 17.5 SCT, he complained all day he's getting walked on the straight. He kept gearing, gearing the way the faster guy was gearing, by adding teeth to the pinion, to reach the ratio, finally he couldn't move the motor any farther. He finally listened to me in the last round to change the spur to a smaller, while almost retaining the same pinion, he went on the track, and locked in Tq. He said, he couldn't believe the difference the way the truck drove, handle, and felt.
Also running such small spur gears is for motor movement. This is a popular tuning tool especially with a mid motor car. The smaller the spur, the farther the motor moves to the rear of the car, and also creates a pendulum effect on the layshaft, making a smoother on and off throttle transition which makes driving seem more fluid.
Wow such clarification offers such confusion. I couldn't agree more with you definition of ratios and leverage, but truly you should put your theory on the dirt and come back and report.
On a direct drive car such as 1/10 pan cars, 1/12 pan cars, ratios are much simpler, roll out can be calculated to achieve a goal. Variables still effect the end result, chassis weight, battery type and c rating, speedo setup, tire size, even the wire to the motor in length and size(gauge).
You add all those variables, then you add dirt, out of balance tires, a geared transmission, and simply enough traction, changes with one tooth on a 48p gear.
At Motorama 2011 my good friend was running 17.5 SCT, he complained all day he's getting walked on the straight. He kept gearing, gearing the way the faster guy was gearing, by adding teeth to the pinion, to reach the ratio, finally he couldn't move the motor any farther. He finally listened to me in the last round to change the spur to a smaller, while almost retaining the same pinion, he went on the track, and locked in Tq. He said, he couldn't believe the difference the way the truck drove, handle, and felt.
Also running such small spur gears is for motor movement. This is a popular tuning tool especially with a mid motor car. The smaller the spur, the farther the motor moves to the rear of the car, and also creates a pendulum effect on the layshaft, making a smoother on and off throttle transition which makes driving seem more fluid.
I was addressing the notion that the same gear ratio, achieved via different spur gear sizes, can produce different torque ratios (as was stated in the previous post). I believe that I did state that there may be other reasons for preferring the use of larger gears, and cited a couple of examples.
09-06-2012, 07:54 AM
#7574
Originally Posted by parallelfish
I was addressing the notion that the same gear ratio, achieved via different spur gear sizes, can produce different torque ratios (as was stated in the previous post). I believe that I did state that there may be other reasons for preferring the use of larger gears, and cited a couple of examples.
Also Smaller spurs really do not reduce rotating mass as you have to change to a heavier "alloy" pinions. Not much gain there.
What are your thoughts? My .02.
