Red Dot Slash Motors- 12T Titan 550
01-06-2010, 07:50 PM
#46
Why would someone argue on something that doesn't concern them? Spec slash is my main class and I race(along with many others) it as I would with pro sct or 2wd mod so to say its a rookie class is ridiculous. Someone brought up that people are buying 6 motors at a time??? I would like to see someone buy six motors and not run the ones that aren't as punchy. Tuning is one thing but when you see this drastic changes in RPM's and such that doesn't fall under the tuning category in my book sorry. It all comes down to whoever is willing to spend the money to get the fastest stuff...if a slash came out of the box with these RPM's and this much power then i'd be fine.
I don't care how you look at it or how you justify it . This is not the stock motor this guy is selling , it is a way to cheat to win . If you have to cheat to win then you have won nothing . Everyone of you understand what spec means and by definition this is not it and you know it . If you want to go faster then don't ruin it for the new comers in the sport , move on to a faster class .
01-06-2010, 08:25 PM
#47
This is interesting to say the least....
I still want one, if nothing else to see the difference between the two.
I love a motor that makes you say, "brrrAAAP" when your driving....lol!
I still want one, if nothing else to see the difference between the two.
I love a motor that makes you say, "brrrAAAP" when your driving....lol!
01-06-2010, 08:45 PM
#48
Tech Apprentice
So if someone buys a Slash and water dips the motor for break in, they're a cheater?
Or if instead of dropping it on the ground and running the piss out of it, they run it on a block to try and get a good break in that's cheating too?
If you are going to argue that, then no changes at all allowed to set up either. No oil changes, no spacers in the shocks etc... After all, what you are arguing against is knowledge.
So no motor tuning knowledge allowed, but suspension/gearing /set up knowledge is?
Or if instead of dropping it on the ground and running the piss out of it, they run it on a block to try and get a good break in that's cheating too?
If you are going to argue that, then no changes at all allowed to set up either. No oil changes, no spacers in the shocks etc... After all, what you are arguing against is knowledge.
So no motor tuning knowledge allowed, but suspension/gearing /set up knowledge is?
01-06-2010, 09:01 PM
#50
Welcome to the internet
Like with any closed-endbell motor make sure you don't over gear the motor. You should be ok.
I have never understood this mindset. By this logic Epic 27T brushed motors that were sold under the Hurricane, Fantom or EA names wouldn't have been legal. The difference in that example and what Doug does is that they were buying OEM motors from Epic/Trinity and re-labeling them as their own. These ARE ARE ARE ARE the exact same TRA3785 Titian 12T motors as Traxxas sells. The only difference is that these are broken in, tuned and any dogs are weeded out to ensure you get the best motor possible. Spec means that you run specific gear and as long as you don't modify or tamper with the gear then it meets the letter of the rules. As far as "moving on to a faster class" some tracks run Spec Slash and that's it. I know my local track is only allowing the Slash and the Strike in the SC class right now. They've said they will run an "Open" class..if enough people show up. Personally I'd rather run a 17.5 and call it a day, but if I have to run the Titan 550 I'm going to want to know that I have the best motor in my truck. For me those are the Red Dot tuned motors.
Like with any closed-endbell motor make sure you don't over gear the motor. You should be ok.
I have never understood this mindset. By this logic Epic 27T brushed motors that were sold under the Hurricane, Fantom or EA names wouldn't have been legal. The difference in that example and what Doug does is that they were buying OEM motors from Epic/Trinity and re-labeling them as their own. These ARE ARE ARE ARE the exact same TRA3785 Titian 12T motors as Traxxas sells. The only difference is that these are broken in, tuned and any dogs are weeded out to ensure you get the best motor possible. Spec means that you run specific gear and as long as you don't modify or tamper with the gear then it meets the letter of the rules. As far as "moving on to a faster class" some tracks run Spec Slash and that's it. I know my local track is only allowing the Slash and the Strike in the SC class right now. They've said they will run an "Open" class..if enough people show up. Personally I'd rather run a 17.5 and call it a day, but if I have to run the Titan 550 I'm going to want to know that I have the best motor in my truck. For me those are the Red Dot tuned motors.
01-06-2010, 09:10 PM
#51
Breaking in a motor is and has always been common practice . More power is simply a by product of proper breaking in , just as maintenance of said motor is also necessary . So you and many other may break one in for the added power , there are many that break their motors in properly for longevity . Not everyone has deep pockets that race .
01-07-2010, 03:45 AM
#52
01-07-2010, 03:48 AM
#53
Lets look at the RPM's of a normal titan motor and these...the changes are too great. Even the guy whose selling these said there are different.
Last edited by maxair45; 01-07-2010 at 03:48 AM. Reason: spelling
01-07-2010, 05:28 AM
#54
Look I understand where everyone is coming from, I played this game a long time ago and one of the reason I got back into RC was brushless/lipo- the end of motor magic and battery maintenance.
01-07-2010, 06:39 AM
#55
this is a hoot. heck even the motor manufs in brushed says would sell dyno tuned or pro versions. its the same motor. u a cheater now?
spec is a dirty word, get over it. the time spent arguin over this crap u coulda been out practicing and thats what wins. but then again, who cares who wins? i go home from the track and i feel bout the same way when i win, run 9th, 5th etc. did i have fun or not?
there's always some1 out there faster than you. get over it.
and yes, in '4 letter S word' classes, people work every angle to be faster. think u can change it? well then u'd have more influence than gandhi.
R
spec is a dirty word, get over it. the time spent arguin over this crap u coulda been out practicing and thats what wins. but then again, who cares who wins? i go home from the track and i feel bout the same way when i win, run 9th, 5th etc. did i have fun or not?
there's always some1 out there faster than you. get over it.
and yes, in '4 letter S word' classes, people work every angle to be faster. think u can change it? well then u'd have more influence than gandhi.
R
01-07-2010, 07:41 AM
#56
Using your example, if you take a new Traxxas 12t Titan motor out of the bag off the shelf and dyno it, then do a simple water break in and dyno it again, you'll almost always see greater RPMs with the one that was broken in. That's dipping the can in water and running it, within the reach of pretty much anyone that races.
Take that same motor and dyno it twice, each time with a different battery pack. You'll get different results, most likely even with two packs that are the same SKU #. Most tracks don't limit the discharge rating of batteries in this class, and that's a huge part of your RPM output.
There are dozens of other little tricks just like that which will affect how any motor performs - even brushless motors cannot be truly controlled against this. It sucks, I agree... but it's just the nature of racing. You learn to deal with it, close your eyes and pretend it doesn't happen, or move on to something else, because it's not ever going to be eliminated at any level.
01-07-2010, 08:23 AM
#57
Spec motors are defined by the individual track meaning that only a certain motor is allowed in said spec class , with that being said the motor in question ( all though is said to be the same motor ) is not , in the fact that it has been tuned as you call it , what ever , it is still illegal unless this motor your trying to justify is named as the spec motor .
1) Are Red Dot Motors the same Traxxas motor or a knockoff/different wind?
A- It is the same TRA3785
2) Are Red Dot Motors opened, altered, comms cut, etc?
A- No. The integrity of the motor itself is never tampered with. Red Dot Motors are tuned motors. These are not designed or marketed as a "Cheater Motor" to circumvent the rules, unlike certain brushless ESC's that feature a mode deliberately called "Cheat Mode". The can is never opened, the enbell is never removed and the armature is never altered.
3) Are Red Dot Motors legal for Slash Spec Racing where you must run the kit-style Titian 12T Motor?
A- Absolutely. The only exception would be if tracks run "house motors" where people people show up with their truck and get a motor to run from the track/race director.
4) Will the performance of a Red Dot Motor drive my truck for me?
A- Of course not, you still need to drive truck. Take a great motor and a crappy driver and you will get a crappy result. Take a good driver and a great motor and you get a better result. Take a great driver and a great motor and you have a winning combination.
5) So what am I paying for?
A- Years of motor tuning experience that, for those who don't have the time, knowledge or equipment to improve the out-of-the-box performance on top of the motor itself. You are also paying for the peace of mind knowing that every Red Dot Motor sold has been checked, double checked and triple checked the performance to ensure that the motor meets the criteria Doug sets before shipping.
Sorry to get on a rant here but the implication that there's something ilegal or unscrupulous going on here. If you don't like the idea, don't buy one. Its as simple as that. But to claim these are cheater, cracked or otherwise manipulated motors in a spirit outside the rules is quite ridiculous and frankly ill-informed.
01-07-2010, 09:03 AM
#58
Tech Addict
iTrader: (9)
These are just like his silver can motors. He tunes them up for you.
I myself think's a nice niche for some one to do. Don't like em, don't buy
em. Thats the beauty of America the mighty dollar speaks. Thats why I like
17.5 over these motors. The only time you see the silver cans come out is during the TCS . The rest the year , no one runs them. But like people say there really is no spec class. Besides racing to me is about the fun, this stuff
doesn't pay the bills or increase my salary rate
Dynodan22
I myself think's a nice niche for some one to do. Don't like em, don't buy
em. Thats the beauty of America the mighty dollar speaks. Thats why I like
17.5 over these motors. The only time you see the silver cans come out is during the TCS . The rest the year , no one runs them. But like people say there really is no spec class. Besides racing to me is about the fun, this stuff
doesn't pay the bills or increase my salary rate
Dynodan22
01-07-2010, 09:53 AM
#59
Again the Red Dot motors ARE those motors. You can try to split hairs but the Red Dot Tuned Titan 12T is the same base motor. You can't argue facts and that is the fact. Again all Doug is doing is providing his years of motor tuning, break-in and knowledge to those who don't have the time, experience or knowledge to do this themselves. Not to speak for Doug here but knowing some of the process I just want to address some misconceptions:
1) Are Red Dot Motors the same Traxxas motor or a knockoff/different wind?
A- It is the same TRA3785
2) Are Red Dot Motors opened, altered, comms cut, etc?
A- No. The integrity of the motor itself is never tampered with. Red Dot Motors are tuned motors. These are not designed or marketed as a "Cheater Motor" to circumvent the rules, unlike certain brushless ESC's that feature a mode deliberately called "Cheat Mode". The can is never opened, the enbell is never removed and the armature is never altered.
3) Are Red Dot Motors legal for Slash Spec Racing where you must run the kit-style Titian 12T Motor?
A- Absolutely. The only exception would be if tracks run "house motors" where people people show up with their truck and get a motor to run from the track/race director.
4) Will the performance of a Red Dot Motor drive my truck for me?
A- Of course not, you still need to drive truck. Take a great motor and a crappy driver and you will get a crappy result. Take a good driver and a great motor and you get a better result. Take a great driver and a great motor and you have a winning combination.
5) So what am I paying for?
A- Years of motor tuning experience that, for those who don't have the time, knowledge or equipment to improve the out-of-the-box performance on top of the motor itself. You are also paying for the peace of mind knowing that every Red Dot Motor sold has been checked, double checked and triple checked the performance to ensure that the motor meets the criteria Doug sets before shipping.
Sorry to get on a rant here but the implication that there's something ilegal or unscrupulous going on here. If you don't like the idea, don't buy one. Its as simple as that. But to claim these are cheater, cracked or otherwise manipulated motors in a spirit outside the rules is quite ridiculous and frankly ill-informed.
1) Are Red Dot Motors the same Traxxas motor or a knockoff/different wind?
A- It is the same TRA3785
2) Are Red Dot Motors opened, altered, comms cut, etc?
A- No. The integrity of the motor itself is never tampered with. Red Dot Motors are tuned motors. These are not designed or marketed as a "Cheater Motor" to circumvent the rules, unlike certain brushless ESC's that feature a mode deliberately called "Cheat Mode". The can is never opened, the enbell is never removed and the armature is never altered.
3) Are Red Dot Motors legal for Slash Spec Racing where you must run the kit-style Titian 12T Motor?
A- Absolutely. The only exception would be if tracks run "house motors" where people people show up with their truck and get a motor to run from the track/race director.
4) Will the performance of a Red Dot Motor drive my truck for me?
A- Of course not, you still need to drive truck. Take a great motor and a crappy driver and you will get a crappy result. Take a good driver and a great motor and you get a better result. Take a great driver and a great motor and you have a winning combination.
5) So what am I paying for?
A- Years of motor tuning experience that, for those who don't have the time, knowledge or equipment to improve the out-of-the-box performance on top of the motor itself. You are also paying for the peace of mind knowing that every Red Dot Motor sold has been checked, double checked and triple checked the performance to ensure that the motor meets the criteria Doug sets before shipping.
Sorry to get on a rant here but the implication that there's something ilegal or unscrupulous going on here. If you don't like the idea, don't buy one. Its as simple as that. But to claim these are cheater, cracked or otherwise manipulated motors in a spirit outside the rules is quite ridiculous and frankly ill-informed.
once again as I said if you have to cheat to win , then you haven't won anything . So basically what tracks can do to combat this , is to implement a claimer rule of 25$ a motor , that is about the price of a true stock TRA3785 motor . Problem solved .
01-07-2010, 10:05 AM
#60
It is possible, just because you may not know how to do it doesn't mean it's impossible. I will tell you that integrity matters a lot do Doug. Tampering inside the can of a sealed endbell motor is clearly over the line by anyone's standards. Like I say I know that when it comes time to run a Titian 12T motor I'll be happily running a Red Dot-tuned motor.