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Old 03-20-2009, 04:13 PM   #1
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I think passing is a very interesting subject in rc racing, no matter your skill level you will be in a situation to either pass someone else or get passed yourself. The etiquette of passing is different from track to track, some tracks state that any pass is to be made completely clean (not touching the other car), some tracks say you can bump, some just don't care at all how you pass.
What is the general consensus for a clean pass? What is bumping? Who is at fault when a pass goes bad? I'm would bet that everyone has their own idea of each situation. A clean pass really is easy to answer; you don't touch the other car, however this pass is also the hardest to implement. You need to be following the other car close enough so when they blow their line by a foot or more you can get by them before they can get back into their line. Bad drivers who consistently blow their line are easy to pass. But how do you pass the good drivers who when they blow their line are only six inches off?

My line is simply this, if my line will get me to the apex of the corner first, and in control of my car, then I will attempt to pass. If the person about to be passed realizes that they are beat they should give up the line, but only good drivers realize when they are beat, mediocre drivers think they can still win to the corner and end up hitting the guy trying to pass them. Normally this isn't a problem, as you can wait for mediocre driver to blow a line enough for you to get around him. But what if you are in first and second is on your heels. You come up to a mediocre driver and set him up, but he doesn't want to give up the line, you slow down and second goes by you on the outside? Now you have lost position because stubborn driver in front of you thinks you don't have him beat, and you were too nice to bump him.

What if you are first and second is on your heels and you come up on 6th and 5th, they are both in a heated battle for position, you got 30 seconds left in the race. Do you just try to block second from getting around you, while letting the race ahead of you play out without interfering? What if second place is a really aggressive driver who does not mind bumping to get around you, especially since time is short and he has to make a move to get first?

You are following someone to set him on to pass, you are following close, 2-3 car lengths. The person in front of you slides out, you run into him and punt him off the track, but you are fine. You didn't mean to run into him, he slid out in front of you. Whose fault is it? Is it your fault for following so close? You were only following so close because you wanted to set him up to pass him clean when he blew his line.

These don't even cover half the situations that occur when passing is happening. So what is a good pass, what is a bad pass?
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:27 PM   #2
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I generally try to pass as clean as I possibly can. I wait for my chance to make a move and try to do so cleanly. Conversely, if I am leading and somebody is on their way to make a clean pass, I let it happen and don't block. If I'm better I will catch back up and regain the position. Trying to keep somebody who is faster behind me will only make both of us go slower and piss the faster person off.

That said, if I'm in first place in a tight race, I'm coming up on a car I'm lapping, the announcer asks him to move aside, and he doesn't then I will move him out of the way. I get pretty pissed when somebody who is two laps down won't get the hell out of the way.

In fact, just last week I was in a tight battle for 1st in the main. I was in 1st and 2nd was 5 feet behind. We were coming up on a car that was a lap or two down. The announcer asked them to let us by. Well he started like he was going wide so I went in for the pass, then he cut back in, flipping me over. I will admit, I was pissed. However, second place amazingly stopped and waited for me. He said that was messed up and he didn't want to beat me that way.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:04 PM   #3
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My line is simply this, if my line will get me to the apex of the corner first, and in control of my car, then I will attempt to pass.
I believe the test of a clean pass goes a little further than this.

You need to include corner exit.

A pass is clean if you could have made the whole corner on a good line without making contact. If you make contact in that scenario then it is a racing incident. If the other car was your brake (no matter the intention), it's a dirty move.

The problem with your rule (which may just be a matter of interpretation), is that it is pretty easy to make it to the apex in control (I can slam on the brakes and park it every time), but that doesn't mean you would make it through the whole corner on a good line, you might be pointing at the outside track marker.

Of course, the more experienced drivers among us can see the late dive coming, and turn in late, going back inside on the exit. Very satisfying...

You also mention bumping a leading car that slides out mid-corner - well, that car is out of control, and not making a good line. As long as you are making a good line yourself, it's just a racing incident.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:09 PM   #4
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I had that 'mediocre driver issue' this last weekend, and fortunately he broke 1st lap of the main and I was happy because previous heats he would just take the inside way to fast as I was at apex and just t-bone me every time.

If I am slower than the guy coming up to pass me, I will move over, and if I am racing hard against someone, I make it my goal to not even touch them too, and if they have inside, I give it and I just work the outside if possible. I try real hard to be respectful to the other drivers.

However, if it is the mediocre driver, and they are a lap or two down and just driving reckless, I'll follow real close and do a little tap to their rear bumper coming out of a turn when they are on throttle and that is usually enough to make them veer and sway out of the way pretty good. But yea, coming out of a turn is my favorite place to 'tap'.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:05 PM   #5
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I think a "clean" pass is key, but lets not get silly about it.

If I'm about to be lapped by a lead driver, I'm not going to just move out of the way if I have a fast car under control. They need to set up and then when I can cleanly make a move to let them by, they need to take it. Likewise, don't expect someone to leap out of my way either. Sometime though you have drivers that should be in a novice or sportsman class running way out of their league and continually try to block you or are just all over the place.. then sometimes you need a little nudge..

What I hate the most is if the leader gets way out ahead.. and goes to lap the 2nd and 3rd place guys who have been fighting for position all race, it is rude to try and make aggressive passes when they are battling. You've already won.. chill and let them battle it out. If they crash or take a bad line, then pass them. Even worse is when you are battling for position (especially 2nd or 3rd) and the leader passes you and then slows down and gets in your way! If you are going to pass me, you better be faster!

But all-in-all, it is "toy" racing... it is suppose to be fun. So courtesy is key.


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Old 03-20-2009, 06:17 PM   #6
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heres my take, regardless of who what or where.

ITS A RACE
ITS FULL ON COMPETITION
BUMPING IS RACING
PASSING IS RACING
IF IM IN FRONT AND YOUR BEHIND ME PASS ME
IF YOU CAN

IF IM BEHIND, I WILL GET BY YOU, OR CRASH TRYING
If i take you out with me, TOO BAD SO SAD, you should of moved and let me by, or sped up leaving me in the dust.

If you take me out with you, Refer to the 3rd line

Now, with that said, this doesnt mean to run people off the track, but it doenst mean i will roll over and let you buy. Sometimes a HUGE part of Racing is Pass BLOCKING.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Timmahh View Post
heres my take, regardless of who what or where.

ITS A RACE
ITS FULL ON COMPETITION
BUMPING IS RACING
PASSING IS RACING
IF IM IN FRONT AND YOUR BEHIND ME PASS ME
IF YOU CAN

IF IM BEHIND, I WILL HACK YOU TO GET BY YOU, OR CRASH TRYING
If i take you out with me, TOO BAD SO SAD, you should of moved and let me by, or sped up leaving me in the dust.

If you take me out with you, Refer to the 3rd line

Now, with that said, this doesnt mean to run people off the track, but it doenst mean i will roll over and let you buy. Sometimes a HUGE part of Racing is Pass BLOCKING.


fixed


I hate when people over shoot corners, and then take out the back end of your car in the process because your a better driver.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:34 PM   #8
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I will be more than happy to leave the leaders a window to get by me If I am being lapped, Unfortunately some people take the philosophy of "if I cant win , neither will he". Those are the guys that I use the 3 turn rule from running 1/12 on.In other words you have 3 turns to shit or get off the pot before I kick you off the pot.I have even been known to announce it on the drivers stand so they are warned.I mean if you have already been lapped 2-3 times do you really think you have a shot at catching the leader with 1:30 left in a race??Not unless he breaks, so why piss the leaders off, when odds are you will have to run with them again.You get a rep as being the dodge car especially in ifmar qualifying the leaders will get fed up and stuff you.
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Last edited by 2wdMod; 03-20-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Timmahh View Post
Sometimes a HUGE part of Racing is Pass BLOCKING.

I have to agree on this one; look at supercross racing. I suppose it also depends on the type of racing as well. For a loose dirt jumpy track, you have to expect some rubbin'; but for a street or carpet track you can hold your lines a lot better.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:47 PM   #10
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I think passing is a tough subject. My personal style is clean passes only. I am generally a good bit faster than a lot of the other guys in my class simply because I wait for my chance. I like to run clean lines and make nice passes. I think it takes a lot more skill to be able to do that.

I definitly appreciate when other drivers also run with that style. I think that rubbing and using other drivers to help you run lines is kind of dirty. I can't stand when someone consistantly comes into corners too hot and take you out in an attempt to pass you. Not only does it ruin your lap, but you also run the risk of breakage because of someone else being inconsiderate.

On the subject of blocking, it's not always a bad thing. If I come up on a back-marker and second place catches me, I'll try to run certain lines to force others to "block" for me. I try not to bump and rub, but instead try to take up as much room so that #2 can't fit around us until I can pass the lapper.

If I rub someone, whether they spun out first or not, I tend to wait for them if we were in a close battle. I enjoy the competition and want to win because I beat you, I don't want to win because of something that might be considered remotly dirty, because then you have something else to blame.

On the other hand, rubbing is part of racing. I don't mind the occasional bump and I do sometimes put one on others, but as long as it's not a part of your racing plan and not consistant, I can accept it. If it starts happening race after race, week after week, then there's an issue with your ability.

At my track, we run an 8 week series, with the lowest 3 scores thrown out. That rewards week to week consistancy and clean racing makes you consistant.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #11
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I think passing is a tough subject. My personal style is clean passes only. I am generally a good bit faster than a lot of the other guys in my class simply because I wait for my chance. I like to run clean lines and make nice passes. I think it takes a lot more skill to be able to do that.

I definitly appreciate when other drivers also run with that style. I think that rubbing and using other drivers to help you run lines is kind of dirty. I can't stand when someone consistantly comes into corners too hot and take you out in an attempt to pass you. Not only does it ruin your lap, but you also run the risk of breakage because of someone else being inconsiderate.

On the subject of blocking, it's not always a bad thing. If I come up on a back-marker and second place catches me, I'll try to run certain lines to force others to "block" for me. I try not to bump and rub, but instead try to take up as much room so that #2 can't fit around us until I can pass the lapper.

If I rub someone, whether they spun out first or not, I tend to wait for them if we were in a close battle. I enjoy the competition and want to win because I beat you, I don't want to win because of something that might be considered remotly dirty, because then you have something else to blame.

On the other hand, rubbing is part of racing. I don't mind the occasional bump and I do sometimes put one on others, but as long as it's not a part of your racing plan and not consistant, I can accept it. If it starts happening race after race, week after week, then there's an issue with your ability.

At my track, we run an 8 week series, with the lowest 3 scores thrown out. That rewards week to week consistancy and clean racing makes you consistant.
yep gotta love those guys that think it's all good to use the other cars on the track as berms.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:26 PM   #12
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I see the whole thing being muddied and confused by what people think is right or "just racing" depending on who does what, so I'll simplify it as I look at it.
~ I RACE OTHERS AS I WOULD LIKE TO BE RACED.
~ IF I CRASH SOMEONE I AM RACING FOR POSITION, I STOP AND LET THEM REGAIN THEIR POSITION (it wasn't their fault) EVEN IF IT COSTS ME POSTION(S). IT'S ONLY FAIR.
~ IF I AM THE LEADER, OR ONE OF THE LEADERS, I EXPECT TO BE LET THROUGH BY BACKMARKERS I AM LAPPING (you've already crashed at least three or four times for me to make up that kind of real estate, be courteous if you want me being courteous).
~ IF I AM BEING LAPPED BY THE LEADERS I PULL OVER AND LET THEM THROUGH (it only adds a few seconds for that lap, and my race for the podium is done so why not be courteous and not affect the outcome of a race).
~ IF I CAN NOT PASS SOMEONE WITHOUT BUMPING THEM OUT OF THE WAY, MAKING A CLEAN PASS, I WILL NOT FIGURE I DESERVE TO MAKE THE PASS.
~ IF I RECONGIZE SOME ONE FOR PUNTING OR SLAMMING ME TO MAKE A PASS, I WILL RETURN THE FAVOR.
~ IF I RECOGNIZE WILD DRIVING THAT TAKES ME OUT (we've all seen it, and done it mistakenly) I WILL BUMP YOU OFF THE TRACK BEFORE YOU CAN DO IT TO ME. ONCE, SHAME ON YOU. TAKING IT TWICE, SHAME ON ME. TOO BAD, SO SAD.
~ PASS BLOCKING IS ONLY FOR THE LEADER(s) TRYING TO HOLD POSITION, IT'S NOT FOR BACKMARKERS OR LAPPED CARS.
~ I HAVE A FULL WIDTH BUMPER IN THE TOOLBOX FOR EVERY CAR I OWN, AND WILL INSTALL BETWEEN HEATS.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:59 PM   #13
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if i was being lapped by the leader i would let him by but anyone else i wouldn't because they are not first they are second third and so on so i just go the speed i was going then if they bump me and pass me i will catch up to them then i would ram then in the back end especially if they bumped me in front of someone and broke my rc i would be pissed

But my idea of a clean pass is if someone can't hold there line and they can't take the corners sharp i would pass on the inside like i say if u break it fix it then race it again you always have to take chances in racing but if u try to pass someone and u take them on the inside and u make a mistake and u break it oh well right but clean passes are when you dont touch and being respective of other drivers and not bump them or ram them and break there rc's thats my opinion

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Old 03-20-2009, 11:36 PM   #14
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Most people, well.. Most racers, will say that they try and pass clean, but what happens after they begin their move, is out of their hands. You can never truly predict what the other car will do, yes, you can have a good idea what he will do, but there are no guarantees. How many racers though, actually know when they are beat? How many racers really know that because they went a little wide they gave up their line, and the only way to get it back is to cause an incident? There is a difference between blocking and trying to retake a line you lost. Now blocking is fine, so long as you are blocking position. There is no need to block the leader when he is lapping. Blocking is figuring out which line the passer will take and stealing it without hitting his car. Now people who dive bomb corners are idiots, and when I said beating someone to the apex, I mean with control and without hitting the other guy. If the other guy runs into you because he is trying to retake the line, well, his fault. But dive bombing, yeah those guys are just plain annoying and I can't stand racing against them.

Anytime I cause an incident, and it creates a position change, I will let the other guy back ahead. But there are some who don't, they seemingly gladly run into you and take over position without care. It seems that some people just concentrate too much on their own cars and don't care who they hit to get where they are going.

What to do when you are being crowded into the tubes? Do you give em a bump to let them know you are there, do you let off and let them go ahead? This generally happens on a long straight, you are side by side with someone, your line is perfect for the corner, he is a little wide, he starts crowding you, you give a little he crowds more. At some point do you fight for your line? You are on it, technically it is your line, but bumping down the straight could lead to a big incident.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:41 PM   #15
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I try to race as clean as possible and if someone taps me, I am fine with that. I just remember their car and step on it next time I marshal their race...

Just kidding. I am fairly new to racing and I try to race and pass as clean as possible. If the leaders are coming through, I will stay out of their way. My time is not as important as their race at that point.

That being said, we all paid our money and we all have a right to the track. Courtesy is key (whoever said that before said it very well), but if I mess up I move on. An apology goes a long way and a lot of people may get upset, but no one I know is getting paid to race small cars on a Saturday; they should treat it that way.

Look at CORR, you try to race clean but tapping is also just part of the game.
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