R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2009, 08:32 AM   #1
Tech Elite
 
warpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cornfield, Nebraska
Posts: 2,862
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default 1/10 4wd buggy vs. 1/8 4wd buggy

I started this discussion in another thread and it was off topic so I felt it deserved it's own thread. Here is my original post....

I would like to jump in here... I am just curious... If you're a fan of 4wd electric. Why wouldn't you just get an 1/8 brushless? It's going to be a huge class in the next couple years. The sooner people that get them the quicker it would happen. The initial cost is up there but the rewards are greater than I've ever seen in 1/10 4wd or any any other class for that matter.

As far as the cost goes... Companies like SMC are making batteries that are very superior to others and very competitive in pricing. The brushless systems are also very cost effective. If anyone has experience with 1/8 buggy they would realize the chassis is cost effective as well (considering you aren't running nitro so no fuel, plugs, clutch parts.. etc).

The only thing I can think of is that I know a couple guys at our local track have said they like the 1/10 electric because not very many people race them. They only like to race a couple people at a time. Either that or the fact 1/8 brushless is a new class. Even saying that I would feel there will be more 1/8 brushless buggies this year at most tracks than 1/10 4wheelers. I can't imagine next year and the year after.

I guess I just see 1/8 brushless as having so many positives that I don't know why someone that is a fan of 4wd electric wouldn't want to race the class. They are durable, there is plenty of competition in 1/8 buggy, you can race many more types of tracks, you can run indoor offroad, with brushless/lipo there is hardly any maintenance, and you can program the car to do your bidding with software.

just my .02 on this... The new Losi 8ight-E 2.0 is a really well thought out car. If they make a new 1/10 4wd they should just miniaturize the 1/8 buggy and be done with it.

Ben
__________________
warpig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 08:44 AM   #2
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vine Grove, KY
Posts: 228
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Ben, I've been racing electric since 1989 and have been tinkering with 1/8th scale electric for the last two years or so. I will admit that I like the new bigger electric buggies but still prefer the smaller 4wd buggies. They bigger buggies are spectacular to watch and can really handle some big air! My thoughts are below.

1/10th scale 4wd:
+Fast
+Very refined (they handle well and are sensitive to small tuning changes)
+The new buggies are really easy to work on; just a few minutes to change and A-Arm
-They don't work as well on the 1/8th scale type tracks
-They are less durable than 1/8th scale

1/8th scale 4wd electric:
+Fast (faster than 1/10th 4wd on bigger tracks)
+Super durable
-They are a pain in the but to work on! If they do break, it takes a good bit of wrenching, even with power tools, to get them going again.
-Expensive!!! Wow, don't even get me starte on this one. You can buy a lot of A-Arms for a 1/10 scale buggy for what it costs to put one of these together.
-Heavy! They are bulky, land hard, and sometimes dangerous.


I enjoy the smaller buggies more because it's a bit more challenging. It takes more talent and experience to be fast in 1/10 scale 4wd where as the 1/8 scale buggies are much more forgiving. I guess I like the refinement of the smaller buggies, both 2wd and 4wd. That being said, I plan to continue running my 8ight-E.
richard.bratton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 08:44 AM   #3
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FT Walton, FL
Posts: 967
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Hi Warpig..... Oh yeah

1/10 IS BETTER! LOL

J
__________________
~ Jason Kennedy ~
~ Sweep Racing Tires ~
~ TQ Wire~Wire~
pyro18t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 08:45 AM   #4
Tech Elite
 
y2kgtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,559
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to y2kgtp Send a message via Yahoo to y2kgtp
Default

I'd like to get one eventually. It's the higher cost of the electronics and batteries that hold me back. And the cost of the buggy itself.

I just bought a used XXX-4 G+ to tinker with 4WD for 155$. I can use my same LiPos I have for my stadium truck, and other 1/10th sized electronics.
__________________
"Yes my car is technically illegal, but still its either just as fast or slower than any other car on the track so whats the issue with it being illegal?"
y2kgtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 08:53 AM   #5
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FT Walton, FL
Posts: 967
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Like always I agree with Y2kgtp, it's nice being able to use all the same equipment from car to car.

J
__________________
~ Jason Kennedy ~
~ Sweep Racing Tires ~
~ TQ Wire~Wire~
pyro18t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:09 AM   #6
Tech Lord
 
SuperEk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 10,333
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

yeah its the cost, i m from singapore but i m the only one racing in my country.

I have to race with the nitro as theres no 1/8 EP race in Singapore. The cost of zippy,medusa motors, esc & spares is heavy.

Even major brands are coming out with converted kits or RTR EP versions the esc & motors are for bash only.

I have 1/10 ep buggy but have yet to race it. But the cost is lower, my 2s batts, motor & esc is smaller & cheaper.

Both class are different & different fun

whats a hobby wo spending
__________________
Hobbywing-Acorn Racing-ManiaRC-UpgradeRC-Hong nor-Rc monster-Blackbeard-Rc-MoosDesign-SweepRacing-Boca bearings-Tresrey USA-Velociti raceware-Tekno Rc-Team J-JPL Models-SNR Graphite (RETIRED)
SuperEk4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:11 AM   #7
Tech Elite
 
warpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cornfield, Nebraska
Posts: 2,862
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Many of the 1/10 2S lipos will work in a brushless 1/8 you just need two. The 1/8 batteries are very cost effective. More expensive, yes... but, for the money are much much better. SMC has a 40C 4S1P pack coming out that is about 501grams for $180. Zippy 30C 4S1P packs are $80.

I wonder if any 1/10 drivers ever considering buying a 4S and breaking it down to two 2S packs.

One question.... how do all you feel about tire wear? I feel the tire wear on 1/8 buggy is much better. When I had my 4 wheeler the tires lasted one pack and done. Of course, it depends on the track and motor.

As far as being refined... I don't think the 1/10 4wd is as refined as the 1/8 4wd. I feel that there are many weak point in the 1/10 chassis concept. Room for much improvement. Just my opinion. The 1/10 4wd could have much more potential if they just follow the 3 diff alloy chassis route IMO.
warpig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:15 AM   #8
Tech Elite
 
y2kgtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,559
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to y2kgtp Send a message via Yahoo to y2kgtp
Default

Yes, you prob can use the same Lipo's in the 1/8th Scale that you might have for 1/10th....but you need 2 packs per run.

So would have to have 4 packs minimum, and also 5000mah+ each if you want a decent run time.

Tires....these things are HARD on tires. Just for the lazy example of pre-mounted tires:

25.49 for a set of 2....so aprox 50$ for a set of mounted tires that might last
2-3 weekends?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/18105

The ESC\Motor is negotiable.....You can get a 1/8th setup for about the cost of a higher end 1/10th setup. Around 250$
__________________
"Yes my car is technically illegal, but still its either just as fast or slower than any other car on the track so whats the issue with it being illegal?"
y2kgtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:24 AM   #9
Tech Addict
 
foolio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 732
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpig View Post
One question.... how do all you feel about tire wear? I feel the tire wear on 1/8 buggy is much better. When I had my 4 wheeler the tires lasted one pack and done. Of course, it depends on the track and motor.
Were you driving on concrete? My tires last several months on my 1/10 4 wheeler...no worse than my 2whl. On the same track, I see guys go through tire sets in one weekend with their 8th scales...and those Panther tires they like are something near $80 mounted.

Regardless, I would like to try the 8e class someday, but as others have said, the cost is very high to get into...especially when I already have thousands invested in my 1/10 equipment.
foolio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:37 AM   #10
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vine Grove, KY
Posts: 228
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpig View Post
As far as being refined... I don't think the 1/10 4wd is as refined as the 1/8 4wd. I feel that there are many weak point in the 1/10 chassis concept. Room for much improvement. Just my opinion. The 1/10 4wd could have much more potential if they just follow the 3 diff alloy chassis route IMO.

That's a great point, but the 3 diff setup might be overkill for tenth scale and add too much weight. I do however like the tuning options of the 3 diffs, especially the center diff. The center really effects the agressiveness of the buggies and can make it really hard or easy to drive. IMO, the lack of a center diff in the smaller buggies isn't really a weakness, just a difference. On power, the tenth buggies tend to pull straight a lot like an 1/8th buggy does with light 7000 in the center. To me though, the smaller buggies are more difficult to drive and more sensitive to setup adjustments.
richard.bratton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:38 AM   #11
Tech Elite
 
warpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cornfield, Nebraska
Posts: 2,862
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolio View Post
Were you driving on concrete? My tires last several months on my 1/10 4 wheeler...no worse than my 2whl. On the same track, I see guys go through tire sets in one weekend with their 8th scales...and those Panther tires they like are something near $80 mounted.

Regardless, I would like to try the 8e class someday, but as others have said, the cost is very high to get into...especially when I already have thousands invested in my 1/10 equipment.

No, it was a dirt track and the exact same one I've ran my 1/8 buggies at too. Ifmar pins and holeshots just turned to nothing and I could run a couple months on a set on my 1/8 (at this particular track). I was a bit set back as well. I did have a 10x2 motor at the time as well.... so, maybe just wheel spin even though it felt dialed.
warpig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:44 AM   #12
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vine Grove, KY
Posts: 228
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Maybe it has something to do with tire diameter. The smaller tires on a 1/10th scale buggy are going to turn much more to go the same distance as the 1/8th scale tires. As a result, the rubber on 1/8th scale tires will have less exposure to the track surface than the 1/10th scale tires. Just a theory as I would think there are many other factors.
richard.bratton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:46 AM   #13
Tech Elite
 
y2kgtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,559
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to y2kgtp Send a message via Yahoo to y2kgtp
Default

I would think the heavier 1/8th buggies would be much harder on the tires than a lighter 1/10th?

In the case of durability of the 1/10th, they have room now to beef up the materials, as keeping the weight down is not as much of an issue now with the
lighter LiPo batteries. I'd like to see a nice PBS front end perhaps with solid upper arms, and aluminum shock towers for durability.
__________________
"Yes my car is technically illegal, but still its either just as fast or slower than any other car on the track so whats the issue with it being illegal?"
y2kgtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 10:02 AM   #14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,519
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

1/10 4wd initial cost

350-Buggy
175-Speed control
85-Motor
100-servo
100-Transponder
125-Battery
35-Tires
Total 970.00
1/8 initial cost

400-buggy with Conversion
270-Motor/speedcontrol
100-Servo
100-transponder
175-Battery
60-tires
Total cost-1105.00
Difference is 135.00
So it depends on how you look at it.Both of these cars are on the top end the components pile.As far as handling,they are not comparable.Both do things well the other can't.1/8 will always cost more,but we all know that.But the initial cost are not so different.I choose E 1/8 because I love 8th scale.My favorite class in 1/10 is 4wd Modified,but if I have to choose,its 1/8 for me.The way my track eats tires,My tire bill is a wash between the 2 so.....
racenut123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 10:18 AM   #15
Tech Elite
 
y2kgtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,559
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to y2kgtp Send a message via Yahoo to y2kgtp
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
1/10 4wd initial cost

350-Buggy
175-Speed control
85-Motor
100-servo
100-Transponder
125-Battery
35-Tires
Total 970.00
1/8 initial cost

400-buggy with Conversion
270-Motor/speedcontrol
100-Servo
100-transponder
175-Battery
60-tires
Total cost-1105.00
Difference is 135.00
So it depends on how you look at it.Both of these cars are on the top end the components pile.As far as handling,they are not comparable.Both do things well the other can't.1/8 will always cost more,but we all know that.But the initial cost are not so different.I choose E 1/8 because I love 8th scale.My favorite class in 1/10 is 4wd Modified,but if I have to choose,its 1/8 for me.The way my track eats tires,My tire bill is a wash between the 2 so.....

I guess it's all dependent on the equipment you pick as well. I would consider it a requirement to have 2 batteries minimum for each vehicle.

an extra transponder is more of a convenience than a requirement....but a Rx (not listed) is less easily moved from vehicle to vehicle, so that kinda cancels each other out....
__________________
"Yes my car is technically illegal, but still its either just as fast or slower than any other car on the track so whats the issue with it being illegal?"
y2kgtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Traxxas Slash 1:10 Electric CORR Truck salteen Electric Off-Road 3949 03-19-2012 09:24 AM
tmaxx3.3 vs revo3.3 neupane00 Monster Trucks 11 12-30-2007 03:28 PM
MRC / Academy SB Sport 4wd Buggy Cain Electric Off-Road 956 04-23-2007 08:56 AM
1/10 Brushless Wars - Max vs. Sphere vs. Novak vs. Tekin ? Hyper 7 Electric Off-Road 14 02-03-2007 06:31 AM
1/18th Nationals - Xray M18T vs Asc. 18T - Which one? rcscrewz Micro and Mini Scales 12 01-01-2007 09:54 PM
ROAR to 4 cell.... Advil Electric On-Road 1394 12-21-2006 10:50 PM
Carbon Fibre vs. Aluminum HVAC25000 Electric Off-Road 7 07-26-2005 08:32 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:26 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net