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Old 03-08-2009, 05:04 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by niggs98 View Post
after reading this thread it looked like xtreme had done nothing to help hence looking into it. as a team driver it is my job to help and give advise on forums. as i live so close to xtreme i decided to go one step further and was glad i did. just like any team diver im passionate about the products i use and promote them to the best of my ability. so am understandably worried when someone has an issue that they consider large enough that they have to post it on a public forum slagging off a company. unfortunatly only half of the story has been told in this instance and as much as id like to show exactly what has gone on, i dont feel it would help black sheep and certainly wouldnt look good on me or the sponsers i represent. the only reason i have responded at all is to show that xtreme have done eveything they can to resolve the issue that has happened and now done it 3 times free of charge, what more can they do ?????????????.
You seem a little confused in regards to someone discussing their situation/experience and public slagging. If you provide an unusable kit and the replacement parts never arrive then what should the customer think?

And no, You have no right to "disclose" correspondence between the thread starter and the manufacturer, Hell, I'm surprised they let you near it. I would hope they aren't in the habit of showing customer correspondence to persons outside the company. Quite a serious breach of trust.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:59 AM   #77
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I read all above, and I think I understand Blacksheeps problem. Have been there too: an order not arriving, me getting angry .. and finally having to realise it was all due to misunderstanding, emotions getting the better of me, postal service running badly ...

I also think I understand your point; Metla and I think you are absolutely right.
Offcourse it should be possible to vent once problems on a (this) forum, with the freedom of speech and of opinion.
Discussing the awkward situation shoudl be possible and public slagging should be avoided.

But (you felt it comming )... I also understand Niggs. He is passionate about the car and the company he drives for. AND he has a point when thinking this topic might better be closed.
I also felt this topic to become more "slagging" then "discussing".
To make things clear: I am not an TeamXtreme employee, not a team driver and not even a good driver (... yet!! working on it!!)
But I have some forum-experience (having been a Forum-admin myself for several years) and I knwo it's sometimes better to close a thread and let things cool down a bit, certainly when things are taken care off.

I also felt a little mislead when I heared what Team Xtreme had done while trying to resolve the issue, because it is clear to me, Blacksheep (maybe stressed as he was) did not gave a perfectly accurate picture of the whole situation. Hell, thats understandable even. If Blacksheep had not been so motivated to drive a very fine car, he would not have been so disapointed.
And then one tends to see things a bit coloured.

I think the only possible solutions from here are now:
1. closing this topic (which Metla thinks is not a good solution, which I respect).
People will react here while not really having a 100% complete picture on the situation.
2. Team Xtreme-people trying to resolve the problem best as they can ... which they are (and were!) doing already now.

I don't think it will help anyone any further if Team Xtreme looses time and energy in trying to explain they are actually very involved with Blacksheeps problems. I understand Niggs tries to, when he notices the good name Team Xtreme is injustesly thrown into the dirt (which is why I respond also).

It is true that the Pred is not a usual RC-kit.
It takes some time and knowledge to make the car and to set it up. I knew some stuff about it, read the manual like 15 times .. and still managed to destroy 5 (five!) times my diff before learning how to do it properly.
(And now, I asemble it and do not even have to check it, it stays dialed! .. even without a spring. Thanks to Niggs learning me how to do it properly).
Also it is true that the car can be improved further more with some modifications: stickpack-lipo and shorter Pushrod-mod other (which you can all find on the Pred-forum (http://www.the-pred.co.uk/) and on oOple.com in the Pred-section).

But that's just what I like about the car.
It's not something you pick off the shell in your local supermarket and then drive.
No, it's a car with a long and great history,
It's a car that has great possibilities,
It's a car that is driven by a group of pasionate drivers .. which form a very friendly group of people who help each other out, Pro's and noobs.
It's a car that has been driven into the A-finale more then once, while driving in high level competition!

And all of that would not be possible if it was just rubbish.
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Last edited by Low_E; 03-08-2009 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:34 AM   #78
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You want a rant, here is a rant

I have been insulted by rcrebel (the owner’s brother), then I am informed about how my issues will be handled by a team driver. Even then I am insulted in the process by making me look like I am out of line…. I find it interesting that you say you read all of the correspondence and yet you still fail to mention that it could have been handled differently….

Although all of the shafts/axles need to be bedded in, I think that mine was in fact a defect… They are going to spend far more $$$$ pre building each than it would cost to ship replacements for the few defects that do arise. As far as doing this so that end users don’t have to bed them in, I think that is a choice that they are making because they know it is not right that the drive train binds as much as it does…. It doesn’t do it on AE/X ray/ Kyosho kits that I have built and I would assume if the tolerances were correct it shouldn’t happen here either.

As far as them sending me a replacement that is fantastic as well. I am disappointed that it took all of this to get a problem resolved.... but it should be sent (FREE OF CHARGE)… obviously the replacement parts should be sent for free.... BUT I even agreed to pay for them and return the defective parts so they could be examined

As someone said, the fact that this is the third one (something that you emphasize) is Team Xtreme's fault, not mine.... I am still waiting for the first two....

As far as you reading all of the correspondence as you claim, you should be well aware of the following which I feel should be brought to light;

• Almost none of my emails were responded to in a timely fashion. There were at least three separate email responses stating that they were out sick, etc…. and that is why the emails were not responded to

• Never did they offer to ship in a more efficient manner or give me the option of quicker shipping at MY EXPENSE

• A number of my emails went completely unanswered

• On numerous occasions when asked for tracking info it was not given

• No comments were made about the quality control issues

The list goes on and I will not bore you with it… Please when stating such things; give both sides of the story…. If you would like more specific examples I would be more than happy to oblige…As I have said, please go ahead and post all correspondence… I would welcome the opportunity for ALL to see how this was handled….

As far as posting in the Pred forum, that would only garner responses from HAPPY BRAINWASHED PRED CUSTOMERS…. How about friends of friends…. How about people who considered purchasing only to decide against…. How about people who are considering the Pred and are not aware there is a forum dedicated to them…..

The bottom line is that I was treated in a very poor fashion over something that could have been resolved incredibly quickly.... If they had shipped the parts via DHL and eaten the $20 expense this could have been resolved in a matter of a week. Even when they shipped a couple of items with my spare parts order they intentionally left the driveshaft/axle out of the order despite the fact that I said it was needed. Not even an email stating that “the replacement parts are going out tomorrow with your spares order, are you really need the driveshaft? We ask this because they bind slightly and you just need to run them in. If you really do need one we will send one along”.... I had to email them to ask if the shaft/axle were sent and their response was "if you really need it, we will send it".... What kind of crap is that.... Why wasn’t I asked prior to my spare parts order shipping so it could have been included with that

The truth is, I offered them many alternatives which would have appeased me… I have been on their side of the fence and I understand the difficulties they face… I was asking for very reasonable things and never did I demand anything that was out of line…. I never demanded anything…

I could have come on here ranting and raving about the level of dissatisfaction that I experienced... Truthfully, I have never felt so disappointed in a product or support service. They dropped the ball and I am tired of Team Drives and Owners brothers coming on here and telling me that I have no reason to be upset....

You people DON’T GET IT….. Team Xtreme hasn’t even stepped up to address the issue with me personally…. I haven’t been told that maybe it could have been handled in a different fashion…. I have been made out to be the bad guy….

If I purchased a Porsche or a Ferrari I do not expect to have the same issues arise had I purchased a Hundai…In the event that such problems did arise, I would expect the dealer to pick up the car, leave me a comparable loaner, and get the issues sorted ASAP… I expect a different level of customer service and quality when i pay a premium for something…. Is this wrong on my end????

I am curious how this 3rd drive shaft was shipped….was it shipped Royal Mail again???? Had I been contacted I certainly would have offered to pay DHL charges to have it expedited.

IN THE END, THERE IS NO REASON THIS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN 2 MONTHS TO BE RESOLVED……
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:48 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by blacksheep View Post
You want a rant, here is a rant

I have been insulted by rcrebel (the owner’s brother), then I am informed about how my issues will be handled by a team driver. Even then I am insulted in the process by making me look like I am out of line…. I find it interesting that you say you read all of the correspondence and yet you still fail to mention that it could have been handled differently….

Although all of the shafts/axles need to be bedded in, I think that mine was in fact a defect… They are going to spend far more $$$$ pre building each than it would cost to ship replacements for the few defects that do arise. As far as doing this so that end users don’t have to bed them in, I think that is a choice that they are making because they know it is not right that the drive train binds as much as it does…. It doesn’t do it on AE/X ray/ Kyosho kits that I have built and I would assume if the tolerances were correct it shouldn’t happen here either.

As far as them sending me a replacement that is fantastic as well. I am disappointed that it took all of this to get a problem resolved.... but it should be sent (FREE OF CHARGE)… obviously the replacement parts should be sent for free.... BUT I even agreed to pay for them and return the defective parts so they could be examined

As someone said, the fact that this is the third one (something that you emphasize) is Team Xtreme's fault, not mine.... I am still waiting for the first two....

As far as you reading all of the correspondence as you claim, you should be well aware of the following which I feel should be brought to light;

• Almost none of my emails were responded to in a timely fashion. There were at least three separate email responses stating that they were out sick, etc…. and that is why the emails were not responded to

• Never did they offer to ship in a more efficient manner or give me the option of quicker shipping at MY EXPENSE

• A number of my emails went completely unanswered

• On numerous occasions when asked for tracking info it was not given

• No comments were made about the quality control issues

The list goes on and I will not bore you with it… Please when stating such things; give both sides of the story…. If you would like more specific examples I would be more than happy to oblige…As I have said, please go ahead and post all correspondence… I would welcome the opportunity for ALL to see how this was handled….

As far as posting in the Pred forum, that would only garner responses from HAPPY BRAINWASHED PRED CUSTOMERS…. How about friends of friends…. How about people who considered purchasing only to decide against…. How about people who are considering the Pred and are not aware there is a forum dedicated to them…..

The bottom line is that I was treated in a very poor fashion over something that could have been resolved incredibly quickly.... If they had shipped the parts via DHL and eaten the $20 expense this could have been resolved in a matter of a week. Even when they shipped a couple of items with my spare parts order they intentionally left the driveshaft/axle out of the order despite the fact that I said it was needed. Not even an email stating that “the replacement parts are going out tomorrow with your spares order, are you really need the driveshaft? We ask this because they bind slightly and you just need to run them in. If you really do need one we will send one along”.... I had to email them to ask if the shaft/axle were sent and their response was "if you really need it, we will send it".... What kind of crap is that.... Why wasn’t I asked prior to my spare parts order shipping so it could have been included with that

The truth is, I offered them many alternatives which would have appeased me… I have been on their side of the fence and I understand the difficulties they face… I was asking for very reasonable things and never did I demand anything that was out of line…. I never demanded anything…

I could have come on here ranting and raving about the level of dissatisfaction that I experienced... Truthfully, I have never felt so disappointed in a product or support service. They dropped the ball and I am tired of Team Drives and Owners brothers coming on here and telling me that I have no reason to be upset....

You people DON’T GET IT….. Team Xtreme hasn’t even stepped up to address the issue with me personally…. I haven’t been told that maybe it could have been handled in a different fashion…. I have been made out to be the bad guy….

If I purchased a Porsche or a Ferrari I do not expect to have the same issues arise had I purchased a Hundai…In the event that such problems did arise, I would expect the dealer to pick up the car, leave me a comparable loaner, and get the issues sorted ASAP… I expect a different level of customer service and quality when i pay a premium for something…. Is this wrong on my end????

I am curious how this 3rd drive shaft was shipped….was it shipped Royal Mail again???? Had I been contacted I certainly would have offered to pay DHL charges to have it expedited.

IN THE END, THERE IS NO REASON THIS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN 2 MONTHS TO BE RESOLVED……


in that case i shall delete all previous posts. sorry for trying to help as i now see that this situation is way past that. its amazing tho how some people will bite the hand that feeds them (on both sides) any further issues from yourself can be taken up with xtreme them selves. happy racing
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:58 AM   #80
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well, in that case, I consider myself happely brainwashed lol
I have had Lewis and Yanina on the phone personally and they were always very friendly (realy EVERY time).
Also have I met numerous Pred-drivers through the internet, and they all seem be part of a happy bunch
Also did I met nathan personally and he is for me THE example of a helping top-driver.

I just re-read this thread and must have missed it again, cause I did not find insults. Offcourse there might be comments that can be explained to be insulting but again, I must be brainwashed.

In that case, I see myself not able to help you any further. It seems you really are convinced Team Xtreme is a gang of crooks of some kind and that's a pitty.

I certainly hope you find a car that suites you nicely. A Pred definitely is not one for you.
I leave it to the other people reading this thread to decide if we really tried to help you or not.
All the best in your RC-future.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:05 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by blacksheep View Post
You want a rant, here is a rant

I have been insulted by rcrebel (the owner’s brother), then I am informed about how my issues will be handled by a team driver. Even then I am insulted in the process by making me look like I am out of line…. I find it interesting that you say you read all of the correspondence and yet you still fail to mention that it could have been handled differently….

Although all of the shafts/axles need to be bedded in, I think that mine was in fact a defect… They are going to spend far more $$$$ pre building each than it would cost to ship replacements for the few defects that do arise. As far as doing this so that end users don’t have to bed them in, I think that is a choice that they are making because they know it is not right that the drive train binds as much as it does…. It doesn’t do it on AE/X ray/ Kyosho kits that I have built and I would assume if the tolerances were correct it shouldn’t happen here either.

As far as them sending me a replacement that is fantastic as well. I am disappointed that it took all of this to get a problem resolved.... but it should be sent (FREE OF CHARGE)… obviously the replacement parts should be sent for free.... BUT I even agreed to pay for them and return the defective parts so they could be examined

As someone said, the fact that this is the third one (something that you emphasize) is Team Xtreme's fault, not mine.... I am still waiting for the first two....

As far as you reading all of the correspondence as you claim, you should be well aware of the following which I feel should be brought to light;

• Almost none of my emails were responded to in a timely fashion. There were at least three separate email responses stating that they were out sick, etc…. and that is why the emails were not responded to

• Never did they offer to ship in a more efficient manner or give me the option of quicker shipping at MY EXPENSE

• A number of my emails went completely unanswered

• On numerous occasions when asked for tracking info it was not given

• No comments were made about the quality control issues

The list goes on and I will not bore you with it… Please when stating such things; give both sides of the story…. If you would like more specific examples I would be more than happy to oblige…As I have said, please go ahead and post all correspondence… I would welcome the opportunity for ALL to see how this was handled….

As far as posting in the Pred forum, that would only garner responses from HAPPY BRAINWASHED PRED CUSTOMERS…. How about friends of friends…. How about people who considered purchasing only to decide against…. How about people who are considering the Pred and are not aware there is a forum dedicated to them…..

The bottom line is that I was treated in a very poor fashion over something that could have been resolved incredibly quickly.... If they had shipped the parts via DHL and eaten the $20 expense this could have been resolved in a matter of a week. Even when they shipped a couple of items with my spare parts order they intentionally left the driveshaft/axle out of the order despite the fact that I said it was needed. Not even an email stating that “the replacement parts are going out tomorrow with your spares order, are you really need the driveshaft? We ask this because they bind slightly and you just need to run them in. If you really do need one we will send one along”.... I had to email them to ask if the shaft/axle were sent and their response was "if you really need it, we will send it".... What kind of crap is that.... Why wasn’t I asked prior to my spare parts order shipping so it could have been included with that

The truth is, I offered them many alternatives which would have appeased me… I have been on their side of the fence and I understand the difficulties they face… I was asking for very reasonable things and never did I demand anything that was out of line…. I never demanded anything…

I could have come on here ranting and raving about the level of dissatisfaction that I experienced... Truthfully, I have never felt so disappointed in a product or support service. They dropped the ball and I am tired of Team Drives and Owners brothers coming on here and telling me that I have no reason to be upset....

You people DON’T GET IT….. Team Xtreme hasn’t even stepped up to address the issue with me personally…. I haven’t been told that maybe it could have been handled in a different fashion…. I have been made out to be the bad guy….

If I purchased a Porsche or a Ferrari I do not expect to have the same issues arise had I purchased a Hundai…In the event that such problems did arise, I would expect the dealer to pick up the car, leave me a comparable loaner, and get the issues sorted ASAP… I expect a different level of customer service and quality when i pay a premium for something…. Is this wrong on my end????

I am curious how this 3rd drive shaft was shipped….was it shipped Royal Mail again???? Had I been contacted I certainly would have offered to pay DHL charges to have it expedited.

IN THE END, THERE IS NO REASON THIS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN 2 MONTHS TO BE RESOLVED……

Yo that guy pm'd me (rebelrc) and called me a donkey and he also said i had blisters on my hands from ya know....jerkin it.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:16 PM   #82
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well, in that case, I consider myself happely brainwashed lol
I have had Lewis and Yanina on the phone personally and they were always very friendly (realy EVERY time).
Also have I met numerous Pred-drivers through the internet, and they all seem be part of a happy bunch
Also did I met nathan personally and he is for me THE example of a helping top-driver.

I just re-read this thread and must have missed it again, cause I did not find insults. Offcourse there might be comments that can be explained to be insulting but again, I must be brainwashed.

In that case, I see myself not able to help you any further. It seems you really are convinced Team Xtreme is a gang of crooks of some kind and that's a pitty.

I certainly hope you find a car that suites you nicely. A Pred definitely is not one for you.
I leave it to the other people reading this thread to decide if we really tried to help you or not.
All the best in your RC-future.
[Sighs, and despite bad feeling about it starts to type]

As a neutral observer, your all part right!! Blacksheep surely had every right to post, certainly if he ft he wasn't getting anywhere. And yes he has been insulted, by Rebelrc!!

But, Niggs and yourself have tried to help, Niggs going above and beyond in his efforts too!! Maybe it was just too late to retrieve things sadly?

I think maybe Blacksheep has been unlucky, other people I know who run pred's find Lewis/Yanina very helpful, as well as Niggs, and all are active helpers here in the uk!!

However, not the first time I've heard of very slow/non-existent email response, I know others have had that! Rightly or wrongly (the latter in my book), for some reason MANY businesses in all sectors view email as a less important form of communication than a phone line!
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:24 PM   #83
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that doesnt seem like good customer service at all. they are a small company and any bad reviews here are gonna make a difference especially with the economy these days. i think that they need to rectify the situation by all means or stay in europe. bad attitudes like that dont do any good for your company. things like that turn me away from buying certin companies products. then to have a team driver give an attitude cause he cant help. thats petty in my eyes. grow up and help a fellow racer by doing the right thing. remember the customer is ALWAYS RIGHT.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:28 PM   #84
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well, in that case ... you're right, Gweed
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Old 03-08-2009, 02:35 PM   #85
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Yo that guy pm'd me (rebelrc) and called me a donkey and he also said i had blisters on my hands from ya know....jerkin it.
Donkey's don't have hands.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:30 PM   #86
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Donkey's don't have hands.
I know....... duhh, thats what i told him ahahahahaha
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:15 PM   #87
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Oh my goodness!!!! This has gotten out of hand!!!

I will say my peace and move on...

I sympathize with you blacksheep on the very dire issues you're having with your Predator X11. IMHO, you got a lemon car...

Good luck on this and I sincerely hope things will work out for the best for everyone!!!
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