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Castle Mamba Monster + Zippy Lipo's = SMOKED >

Castle Mamba Monster + Zippy Lipo's = SMOKED

Castle Mamba Monster + Zippy Lipo's = SMOKED

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Old 02-23-2009, 06:59 PM
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I think it shows pure class for Tekin to chime in on this subjectI have used both Tekin and Castle products with great results.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
If you think your batteries are marginal it is never a bad idea to add additional capacitors to the battery line. If they get smoking hot it means they are working pretty hard to control the voltage ripple.

Expand on this please. This might be a viable test to see who makes good stuff. What kind of cap range are we talking about here?
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:05 PM
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I run the Castle System on 5s 4000mah Zippy packs, been flawless so far, very happy with the setup.

My question is:

Even if I do go and buy the "Best" and most expensive battery. What happens two years later when the "Best" battery is on it's downside?? Will using a "worn" battery cause me to fry my ESC??
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:07 PM
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Maybee this is where I am confused. I balance m packs each time I charge. Im using the Hyperion duoII.

Here is the latest news. I just stopped by my buddys house and looked over the ZIPPY pack. Plug the pack into the charger and select start charge. It reads 12.2v then shuts off and says cell (1) voltage too high. I try to go into the balance option and just balance not charge the pack and I get the same error. We wonder if the ESC actually juiced the zippy pack. This pack seriously has 4 cycles on it and it was balanced and charged each time and the lipo cutoff is at 12v an ideas?
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:10 PM
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perhaps a cell failed and that juiced the esc
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
perhaps a cell failed and that juiced the esc
From what I understand, the battery would have puffed and not caused an damage to the ESC if a cell failed. Looks like all the cells in the pack are around 4.1v but I keep getting an error saying cell one voltage is to high. I cannnot store charge it, full charge it or even discharge it.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:25 PM
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if I read it correctly, you were running the zippy's down to 12V correct? from what I have been reading about them, they really don't like that compared to other packs. for your other packs, up your cutoff voltage to 3.3V per cell and see how much balancing your packs need. If your packs need lots of balancing, they really can't handle the load you are putting on them.

Ultimately, i would like to see a governing body come up with a standard C rating test to be approved for racing personally. I think this would be more important for safety than a plastic hardcase.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post

If you think your batteries are marginal it is never a bad idea to add additional capacitors to the battery line. If they get smoking hot it means they are working pretty hard to control the voltage ripple.
I would like to hear more about this, what capacitor is recommended and how to wire it up.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
We can handle all the power the battery can provide if it is going thru the speedo correctly. I assume so can they. It is the voltage ripple that causes a large dv/dt that can induce individual fets on ( or worse yet partially on) that should not be on and they poof like a fuse. The constant current rating is over 200amps per phase and each is only on 1/3 of the time. The pulse current ratings are over 1000amps. Things rarely fail from pure load when all cylinders are firing correctly.

Agreed it is a delema. We tell you to use a good battery and you have no way of knowing if the battery you bought really performs as claimed. In most cases that is where branding comes in. Trusting brands that have earned your respect and do their homework. Unfortunately in this day many major brands are used to sell mass market OEM products they really know little about and had nothing to do with the development. In the lipo market in particular little is certain right now.

If your batteries need balancing very often the cells are obviously not very consistent. That was our first criteria when testing batteries. Any that came in out of balance or needed balancing after a month or so usually went in the puff pile and lost a lot of capacity pretty quickly. Maybe that is too strict since with regular balancing marginal cells will perform at least marginally, but that was where we set the bar to get the kind of performance people expect.

If you think your batteries are marginal it is never a bad idea to add additional capacitors to the battery line. If they get smoking hot it means they are working pretty hard to control the voltage ripple.
I will say that i have a V3 mamba monster Max and I love it. I do use a zippy lipo,however i am not adverse to spending more for better quality. So I ask you Tekin Prez ( sorry I dont know your name ) what is a reputable battery company to buy from that you would support? I have talked to Danny at SMC and I think his company is at the fore front of quality and affordability and Most importantly transparancy, he posts his battery data. If I bought your ESC for a future 1/8 scale conversion ( which I plan to do) would his batteries be considered quality to you??

Thanks,

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Old 02-23-2009, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawler View Post
I would like to hear more about this, what capacitor is recommended and how to wire it up.
+1

Also my hats off to Tekin for chiming in on Castles problem, especially when Castle hasnt made a peep...
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:38 PM
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Are you going to attempt to repair it yourself? If it was just a breakdown issue with the electrolytic capacitors, you can probably just buy some equivalent ones and solder them on...

How bad are these spikes that some of the LiPo manufacturers claim that their competitors have? Does anyone have a captured screenshot of these spikes? I serious doubt that any manufacturer would be able to see the spike with a continuous load (say a discharge resistors hooked between the terminals of the batteries with a scope probe attached to the leads to monitor the voltage).

I think these spikes are probably a nasty transient response, the best way to probably to test them would be to rig a controllable switch between the battery and the discharge resistor and vary the switching frequency and also vary the rise time of the switch to see if it's the cause. Would require a FET based switch to alter the rise time effect, since a relay would be just a bang-bang action...

The way I size up electrolytic and other types of capacitors in general is the "no smaller then 2x the V" during a design. I usually shoot for 3x the operating voltage.

Suppose the operating voltage is rated to 12V, I would select a capacitor with breakdown of no less then 50V. If the there is a nasty transient (spike), you should size up the breakdown to be higher. The breakdown voltage is usually rated as "VDC" on an electrolytics. A 50V electrolytic has a breakdown of 50V and etc...

However, for electrolytic, given the same capacitance, the higher the breakdown, the larger the size. For a given board that's already designed, say MMM, you can probably only replace it with the same capacitor...

Electrolytic gives out a large bang when you break them down, be careful with them, the tops of those cans have a relief cut for a reason, i.e. shape charges, to direct the pressure towards the cut...

So long as the FETs inside doesn't seem to be fried, just replace the cap, or if you're still under warranty, I think Castle should be able to repair it for you (better this route since you won't void your warranty)...

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Old 02-24-2009, 04:59 AM
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This is a very good thread with good information being tossed around. I'd really like to see the ESC Mfg's start sending more specific battery info in the instruction pack, not just the basic 4000Mah 25C rating instructions. They do name using Deans, or Power Poles as possible battery connectors, so lets get more specific on suggested battery Mfg's as well.
The moral of this story is if you go out and spend $300+ for a brushless set-up, do not skimp on the fuel, or battery. After reading this thread, I've decided to invest in some good lipo's (SMC,Orion) which now SMC has a 5200, 24c packs very competitively priced. Some of the packs I own now (Elite 4800's) seem to take forever to balance out. Where as my 3200 Orions almost always take 30 sec or so. I guess the long balance times is a warning sign to me of troubles ahead.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:30 AM
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I just got a Flux and have been running it on 4S, but shopping for a 6S setup. I've been using 5000mah 25C NeuEnergy lipos and haven't seen any probs and don't expect too - everything, motor, esc and batts has been barely warm after a 20+ min run.

I was considering Zippys for a 6S power source, but will give it a second glance after reading this. I've not seen this Zippy concern mentioned on Castle's thread on RCMonster, which is surprising since there are many that run Zippys on RCM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:03 AM
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http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=1485624
http://home.comcast.net/%7Etruerc/re...eady_packs.htm

the only 2 batt companys that I buy from the true RC cells are under rated
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:10 AM
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TrueRC does have some really good packs for the money. I know they were discussed in detail on RC Monster and other places.
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