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Old 02-23-2009, 05:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
so far I have seen a guy start a thread based on "what his buddy said and did
and people push SMC batteries to the utmost, last pack of SMC I had was IB4200 matched Nimhs and one cell vented and another exploded, so no battery company is perfect.

I've emailed castle myself as I was looking at Zippy packs for my Savage flux, and will go on their advice as to whether or not these packs are usable with the speedy.

But inevitably sometimes a speedy can just blow, it happens thats why there are warranties, dry solder connections, faulty components etc it can happen. Isn't it possible that's the case here?
Exactly.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:24 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
so far I have seen a guy start a thread based on "what his buddy said and did
and people push SMC batteries to the utmost, last pack of SMC I had was IB4200 matched Nimhs and one cell vented and another exploded, so no battery company is perfect.

I've emailed castle myself as I was looking at Zippy packs for my Savage flux, and will go on their advice as to whether or not these packs are usable with the speedy.

But inevitably sometimes a speedy can just blow, it happens thats why there are warranties, dry solder connections, faulty components etc it can happen. Isn't it possible that's the case here?
The reason for the whole my buddy thing. I run CNC lasers and sit on a computer all day. He works construction and is lucky if he can figure out how to send an e-mail. Friends help each other out.

Yes speed controllers burn up and yes they usually warrenty them. In this case the tech said since the battery rippled it's not CC fault. The tech is sending him another ESC but mentioned that it might be hard to warrenty another since they already have done 2 (one the case exploded and CC admitted they have an issue with the cases not being snapped together good from the factory)

What packs did CC recomend when you spoke with them? Good news is he is getting another ESC bad news is he and I are already invested into some zippy packs, which CC said are junk and not to use. Now I love electric but i don't feel the need to spend 200 bucks per batt pack. The benefits are just not worth the overall cost and headache of packs and ESC'S blowing up. Mine have had zero issues so far (knock on wood)
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:26 PM   #48
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Oneblackram - No worries, my skin is pretty thick. I just usually have something to say in return.

This is a poor thread for me to pimp our products since one of our competitors was getting hammered and we usually enjoy that, but in this case we stand together on the issue since it costs us all money and unhappy customers. Truth is I have seen a lot of good feedback on the low cost HK batteries. However the fact remains that poor batteries can kill speedos in these higher voltage applications and there are some very over rated, inconsistent and poor performing batteries available on the market.

Yes our case is screwed together and the fan is quick and easy to replace. We also put some bosses in the bottom for #2 screws so you can screw it down. Maybe we still need to include some wire ties since lawn darts at 40mph can stress things pretty good.

I do think people need to be educated enough to make good decisions. No one likes to deal with broken product regardless who’s fault it is. People do need to take some responsibility for heeding our recommendations when dealing with this much power. It is not fair for you to save a buck and cost us a buck and be unhappy with us because someone elses product does not do what they claim.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:27 PM   #49
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Exactly.
You drive for castle and this is the best input you could come up with?
We simply want to know what fried the ESC. We find it hard to believe it was because we are using ZIPPY packs. Guess we won't know till we send the unit back and let castle look at the ESC. To me and a few others it doesn't sound like a zippy pack is the sole reason.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:33 PM   #50
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Oneblackram - No worries, my skin is pretty thick. I just usually have something to say in return.

This is a poor thread for me to pimp our products since one of our competitors was getting hammered and we usually enjoy that, but in this case we stand together on the issue since it costs us all money and unhappy customers. Truth is I have seen a lot of good feedback on the low cost HK batteries. However the fact remains that poor batteries can kill speedos in these higher voltage applications and there are some very over rated, inconsistent and poor performing batteries available on the market.

Yes our case is screwed together and the fan is quick and easy to replace. We also put some bosses in the bottom for #2 screws so you can screw it down. Maybe we still need to include some wire ties since lawn darts at 40mph can stress things pretty good.

I do think people need to be educated enough to make good decisions. No one likes to deal with broken product regardless who’s fault it is. People do need to take some responsibility for heading our recommendations when dealing with this much power. It is not fair for you to save a buck and cost us a buck and be unhappy with us because someone elses product does not do what they claim.
That was very well put. But at the same time if a company does testing with one type of product and then sells it to the masses without recommending they only use the same, well then of course they need to assume some fault for not letting the consumer know this information. CC talks about ratings in their manual and the ZIPPY packs fall into the category they recommend. Average RC users do not have all the equipment to test out certain packs not only that, they have to rely on what ratings the manufacturers are labeling stuff. So in my mind I have the right batteries end up with a burned ESC then get CC telling me it's my fault for using a ZIPPY batt?
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:40 PM   #51
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That was very well put. But at the same time if a company does testing with one type of product and then sells it to the masses without recommending they only use the same, well then of course they need to assume some fault for not letting the consumer know this information. CC talks about ratings in their manual and the ZIPPY packs fall into the category they recommend. Average RC users do not have all the equipment to test out certain packs not only that, they have to rely on what ratings the manufacturers are labeling stuff. So in my mind I have the right batteries end up with a burned ESC then get CC telling me it's my fault for using a ZIPPY batt?
well said .....ive used zippy and have a losi pack the problem i have is the cheap case.....thanks ken
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:54 PM   #52
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The issue becomes with the "other" manufacturers specs aren't real.

We can list spec for batteries all day long. However if the packs maker lists specs that the packs don't live up to who's to blame for the failure?

Therein lies the issue at hand. I also am not hear to bash ANY product but at what point do you hold each other to a standard.

This is what's affecting the ENTIRE RC lipo market right now...real numbers for real products.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:01 PM   #53
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Ok so here is another thing, the tech also said not to use anything higher than a 25c rated pack. Stated that anything above that simply wastes power and will not yeild as long of run times. From what I have been reading it stated the higher the c rating the better. Im not trying to stir the pot just get some answers before I decide to ditch all my electics. So far I have not had any issues other than the fact that I think the losi system runs way to hot and planned on replacing it when it burs up.
Ok I was riding along with you until this. Either your friend misunderstand or made it up, or the CC tech you spoke to was actually someone in the shipping department that doesn't know what he's talking about. The C rating alone doesn't determine if the battery is providing more amps than the ESC can handle, and even if it did ESCs are not harmed by being connected to a battery that can deliver more power than they are rated for. The battery will only provide as much as the ESC is drawing, unless something goes wrong. Even a cheap battery has more stored energy than most ESCs can handle if it were to all flow at once.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:13 PM   #54
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The issue becomes with the "other" manufacturers specs aren't real.

We can list spec for batteries all day long. However if the packs maker lists specs that the packs don't live up to who's to blame for the failure?

Therein lies the issue at hand. I also am not hear to bash ANY product but at what point do you hold each other to a standard.

This is what's affecting the ENTIRE RC lipo market right now...real numbers for real products.
That's also another great point and kinda what I was getting at.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by everyjuangohome View Post
You drive for castle and this is the best input you could come up with?
We simply want to know what fried the ESC. We find it hard to believe it was because we are using ZIPPY packs. Guess we won't know till we send the unit back and let castle look at the ESC. To me and a few others it doesn't sound like a zippy pack is the sole reason.
Well lets face it threads like these pop up every day on millions of forums so it is unreasonable to think a solution can be come up with for every problem. As posted numerous reasons could of caused this. Pin pointing it is not always going to happen or be easy.

Great thing is Castle has a great warranty and took care of the problem.

I test 1/10th stuff for Castle and race the Sidewinder and Mamba systems for them not the 1/8th stuff at this time. I will say in all the time I have ran for Castle and ran their products even before I raced for them every problem I have had has always been user error on my part or bad plugs on the motor or my battery. Not that problems don't happen that are problems of the manufacture but this is just my honest experiance since I have run their products.

From what I have learned lower grade batteries do cause a ton of problems for many companies (not just Castle) but you can't possibly post every brand that is not good. I have ran some lower end stuff and some of the better packs out and it does make some difference in overall performance.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:19 PM   #56
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The reason for the whole my buddy thing. I run CNC lasers and sit on a computer all day. He works construction and is lucky if he can figure out how to send an e-mail. Friends help each other out.

Yes speed controllers burn up and yes they usually warrenty them. In this case the tech said since the battery rippled it's not CC fault. The tech is sending him another ESC but mentioned that it might be hard to warrenty another since they already have done 2 (one the case exploded and CC admitted they have an issue with the cases not being snapped together good from the factory)

What packs did CC recomend when you spoke with them? Good news is he is getting another ESC bad news is he and I are already invested into some zippy packs, which CC said are junk and not to use. Now I love electric but i don't feel the need to spend 200 bucks per batt pack. The benefits are just not worth the overall cost and headache of packs and ESC'S blowing up. Mine have had zero issues so far (knock on wood)
haven't got a reply yet, when I do I'll post it up.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:21 PM   #57
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haven't got a reply yet, when I do I'll post it up.
Thanks. Im curious to see what they tell you. We just want to make sure it won't happen again by using a zippy pack. Still love mine so far
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:34 PM   #58
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I still run a Castle Creations Monster Mamba V1 every week and I have been running electric scale for 2+ years. I have ony burned up one regular mamba and shorted out one neu motor. You need to post all of the facts gearing, temp, track conditions ect.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:36 PM   #59
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We can handle all the power the battery can provide if it is going thru the speedo correctly. I assume so can they. It is the voltage ripple that causes a large dv/dt that can induce individual fets on ( or worse yet partially on) that should not be on and they poof like a fuse. The constant current rating is over 200amps per phase and each is only on 1/3 of the time. The pulse current ratings are over 1000amps. Things rarely fail from pure load when all cylinders are firing correctly.

Agreed it is a delema. We tell you to use a good battery and you have no way of knowing if the battery you bought really performs as claimed. In most cases that is where branding comes in. Trusting brands that have earned your respect and do their homework. Unfortunately in this day many major brands are used to sell mass market OEM products they really know little about and had nothing to do with the development. In the lipo market in particular little is certain right now.

If your batteries need balancing very often the cells are obviously not very consistent. That was our first criteria when testing batteries. Any that came in out of balance or needed balancing after a month or so usually went in the puff pile and lost a lot of capacity pretty quickly. Maybe that is too strict since with regular balancing marginal cells will perform at least marginally, but that was where we set the bar to get the kind of performance people expect.

If you think your batteries are marginal it is never a bad idea to add additional capacitors to the battery line. If they get smoking hot it means they are working pretty hard to control the voltage ripple.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:54 PM   #60
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TeamTekinThis is a poor thread for me to pimp our products since one of our competitors was getting hammered and we usually enjoy that
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