Castle Mamba Monster + Zippy Lipo's = SMOKED
02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
#16
Originally Posted by everyjuangohome
Ok so here is another thing, the tech also said not to use anything higher than a 25c rated pack. Stated that anything above that simply wastes power and will not yeild as long of run times. From what I have been reading it stated the higher the c rating the better. Im not trying to stir the pot just get some answers before I decide to ditch all my electics. So far I have not had any issues other than the fact that I think the losi system runs way to hot and planned on replacing it when it burs up.
02-23-2009, 01:42 PM
#17
Tech Apprentice
Originally Posted by everyjuangohome
Ok so here is another thing, the tech also said not to use anything higher than a 25c rated pack. Stated that anything above that simply wastes power and will not yeild as long of run times.
The battery doesn't deliver more power than the ESC asks of it. Period. If the max amount of power that the ESC can possibly use is 25C of a particular pack, having a 35C pack isn't going to gain you any performance. All that having extra C rating gets you is a safety cushion in case extra drag on the driveline causes the ESC to ask for more than 25C. That extra cushion can keep your lipo from puffing.
02-23-2009, 01:42 PM
#18
it is a load of crap, all i run is zippys, how come the mamba max can handle anything but the monster cant? and i highly doubt that there is a high voltage spike with zippys, maxamps will have more lol, sounds to me like an excuse
02-23-2009, 01:43 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Aceldama
I find Castle's logic a bit flawed. They say that Zippy packs don't meet the C rating that they are being labeled as, they say they come up short. Ok fine, let's say they do for the sake of argument. So how does a pack that doesn't deliver as much power as advertised blow up the ESC? If anything it would cause the pack to puff but it wouldn't, it couldn't cause the ESC to blow.
02-23-2009, 01:43 PM
#20
Tech Regular
What a load,
I have been using lipos in my planes for 5+ years and cars for the last 3. I have cycled packs many a time and have never seen an "Voltage spike", where would a high voltage spike come from? the battery has no transformer in it to buck up voltage, sounds fishy to me.
I have ran zippy packs for years, you will get a dud every once and a while but at 1/3 the cost they are worth it. As for their performance Ihave puched them to the limits many times in airplanes and boats and they last as good as the flightpower and thunder powers I also use.
If castle said any of this (which I doubt) they did it to cover their a**. A bound up drive train (Such as bad bearings/gears or a rock stuck in a wheel or spur) would be a much more likely cause. Or it could just be a bad capacitor. Also why do you need 3 lipos to race, you can get by on 1 and 2 is the max you should need per class.
I have been using lipos in my planes for 5+ years and cars for the last 3. I have cycled packs many a time and have never seen an "Voltage spike", where would a high voltage spike come from? the battery has no transformer in it to buck up voltage, sounds fishy to me.
I have ran zippy packs for years, you will get a dud every once and a while but at 1/3 the cost they are worth it. As for their performance Ihave puched them to the limits many times in airplanes and boats and they last as good as the flightpower and thunder powers I also use.
If castle said any of this (which I doubt) they did it to cover their a**. A bound up drive train (Such as bad bearings/gears or a rock stuck in a wheel or spur) would be a much more likely cause. Or it could just be a bad capacitor. Also why do you need 3 lipos to race, you can get by on 1 and 2 is the max you should need per class.
02-23-2009, 01:48 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Aceldama
This is either the best troll posting ever in the history of the internet or that tech doesn't know what he's talking about.
The battery doesn't deliver more power than the ESC asks of it. Period. If the max amount of power that the ESC can possibly use is 25C of a particular pack, having a 35C pack isn't going to gain you any performance. All that having extra C rating gets you is a safety cushion in case extra drag on the driveline causes the ESC to ask for more than 25C. That extra cushion can keep your lipo from puffing.
The battery doesn't deliver more power than the ESC asks of it. Period. If the max amount of power that the ESC can possibly use is 25C of a particular pack, having a 35C pack isn't going to gain you any performance. All that having extra C rating gets you is a safety cushion in case extra drag on the driveline causes the ESC to ask for more than 25C. That extra cushion can keep your lipo from puffing.
We are both using the 4s 5000mah 25-30c zippy packs. We both have the hyperion DUOII charger and balance the packs every time we charge, we charge at 5A.
I have not had any issues YET. But he is hosed.
02-23-2009, 01:52 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Stallard
What a load,
I have been using lipos in my planes for 5+ years and cars for the last 3. I have cycled packs many a time and have never seen an "Voltage spike", where would a high voltage spike come from? the battery has no transformer in it to buck up voltage, sounds fishy to me.
I have ran zippy packs for years, you will get a dud every once and a while but at 1/3 the cost they are worth it. As for their performance Ihave puched them to the limits many times in airplanes and boats and they last as good as the flightpower and thunder powers I also use.
If castle said any of this (which I doubt) they did it to cover their a**. A bound up drive train (Such as bad bearings/gears or a rock stuck in a wheel or spur) would be a much more likely cause. Or it could just be a bad capacitor. Also why do you need 3 lipos to race, you can get by on 1 and 2 is the max you should need per class.
I have been using lipos in my planes for 5+ years and cars for the last 3. I have cycled packs many a time and have never seen an "Voltage spike", where would a high voltage spike come from? the battery has no transformer in it to buck up voltage, sounds fishy to me.
I have ran zippy packs for years, you will get a dud every once and a while but at 1/3 the cost they are worth it. As for their performance Ihave puched them to the limits many times in airplanes and boats and they last as good as the flightpower and thunder powers I also use.
If castle said any of this (which I doubt) they did it to cover their a**. A bound up drive train (Such as bad bearings/gears or a rock stuck in a wheel or spur) would be a much more likely cause. Or it could just be a bad capacitor. Also why do you need 3 lipos to race, you can get by on 1 and 2 is the max you should need per class.
I agree with your logic. We looked the truggy over to make 100% sure nothing was binding and also checked to make sure the motor didn't lock up or something weird. Im glad I am getting some of the same feelings from you guys. I think Im gonna tell my buddy to call castle back and mention some of the information I learned here today.
One lipo on the big tracks here in Socal gets you about 16min run times. So let's say you have 2 batts and you discharge both of them. It will take 80mins to charge both of those packs again. That is boring sitting around waiting for batts to charge. Trust me 2 packs is not enough. I ran my nitro buggy all day with my V-spec motor and it stayed at 215 all day.
02-23-2009, 01:53 PM
#23
Tech Regular
Originally Posted by everyjuangohome
The tech couldn't answer his question as to why he was able to run his buggy with the same pack for the rest of the day without it blowing up another ESC. Tech said they don't always surge.
There you go, cell went bad but the pack performs flawlessly multiple times after it went bad.
You don't need advice from anyone on here, you already know the answer, the tech you talked to is full of it!!!
Now I don't know how your freind approached CC on this subject but 20+ years working at a hobby shop and dealing with manufacturers I have learned that being sweet and talking up their products (Even if they suck) will get you everything, bitching and complaining will get you the worst tech they got and not much else.
02-23-2009, 01:57 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Stallard
There you go, cell went bad but the pack performs flawlessly multiple times after it went bad.
You don't need advice from anyone on here, you already know the answer, the tech you talked to is full of it!!!
Now I don't know how your freind approached CC on this subject but 20+ years working at a hobby shop and dealing with manufacturers I have learned that being sweet and talking up their products (Even if they suck) will get you everything, bitching and complaining will get you the worst tech they got and not much else.
You don't need advice from anyone on here, you already know the answer, the tech you talked to is full of it!!!
Now I don't know how your freind approached CC on this subject but 20+ years working at a hobby shop and dealing with manufacturers I have learned that being sweet and talking up their products (Even if they suck) will get you everything, bitching and complaining will get you the worst tech they got and not much else.
02-23-2009, 02:00 PM
#25
Tech Apprentice
Originally Posted by everyjuangohome
Well like I said neither I nor my buddy are experts on lipo technology, but we both felt the answers were a little fishy. I really hope someone from castle would chime in on this conversation. At this point we are both ready to sell our electrics and stick with nitro.
We are both using the 4s 5000mah 25-30c zippy packs. We both have the hyperion DUOII charger and balance the packs every time we charge, we charge at 5A.
I have not had any issues YET. But he is hosed.
We are both using the 4s 5000mah 25-30c zippy packs. We both have the hyperion DUOII charger and balance the packs every time we charge, we charge at 5A.
I have not had any issues YET. But he is hosed.
Usually if something gets stuck in the drivetrain it could kill an ESC on full throttle because the ESC is going to ask for a lot of power and the battery is going to deliver it with toasty results. Sometimes a slipper clutch can save you. But even a slipper can't save the ESC if there is something caught between the pinion and the spur. The best advice is to keep the driveline as clean as possible and if something seems stuck make extra sure everything is rolling freely before trying it under power again.
Also if dust/sand somehow gets into an ESC case it can and will short it out. Don't ask me how I know (Quark 33A have bad packaging).
02-23-2009, 02:07 PM
#26
There are Castle reps who cruise the boards here, maybe you should direct one of them to this thread and have them officially state what they believe could have caused the ESC to pop, based on the conditions you described above.
Based on what you have stated though, I would think that somehow the binding you had in your drivetrain with the sudden throttle pull caused the ESC to pop, and not the battery pack. Did you friend explain to the tech that he had a binded up drivetrain, and gave her the goose anyway?
Based on what you have stated though, I would think that somehow the binding you had in your drivetrain with the sudden throttle pull caused the ESC to pop, and not the battery pack. Did you friend explain to the tech that he had a binded up drivetrain, and gave her the goose anyway?
02-23-2009, 02:09 PM
#27
Tech Regular
Well it sure sound like you guys are doing everything right, hopefully your buddy gets a new ESC and no more problems.
One thing myself and others have forgot is binding up the drivetrain yourself by sticking it against the wall or pipe and flooring the throttle to get off. I always make sure to take it easy when I am stuck especially during practice.
Good luck
Lockhart
One thing myself and others have forgot is binding up the drivetrain yourself by sticking it against the wall or pipe and flooring the throttle to get off. I always make sure to take it easy when I am stuck especially during practice.
Good luck
Lockhart
02-23-2009, 02:12 PM
#28
I will not claim that any products are junk and will not work, but it is a technical fact that lower quality batteries are hard on electronics. They are a concern and liability for those of us that make controllers. If a battery is over rated or over stressed the voltage will bounce to very high levels and stress the caps. If the caps blow the voltage spikes can exceed the limits of the fets and the speedo will blow. Many of you are looking at things with data loggers that take 20 samples per second or less. We are talking about voltage ripple that happens in micro seconds that can bounce off the scope thousands of times per second with no caps. The fets are only rated to 30V.
Like it or not it is a real engineering problem to deal with in car controllers. Airplane controllers are not the same animals and are not switching the same in most cases. They also do not freeze the motor with brakes and slam full throttle on a 1 turn motor.
Tekin Prez
Like it or not it is a real engineering problem to deal with in car controllers. Airplane controllers are not the same animals and are not switching the same in most cases. They also do not freeze the motor with brakes and slam full throttle on a 1 turn motor.
Tekin Prez
02-23-2009, 02:20 PM
#29
I had the first version of monster when it came out, I've followed its progression up till V3. Castle has and always will blame the battery Mfg. Mine never went thermal, I sold the truck it was in, but seems the V3's are doing pretty good now with the occasional one that still melts down. They always come on rcmonster and say it was the battery to blame, some sort of ripple effect from the batteries makes the capaciters blow up. Good news is that Castle will repair it, bad news is that it may happen again. I've heard of guys going through 3-4 of these until the problem was solved, but honestly lots of those people were having BEC failures.
02-23-2009, 02:20 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Cain
There are Castle reps who cruise the boards here, maybe you should direct one of them to this thread and have them officially state what they believe could have caused the ESC to pop, based on the conditions you described above.
Based on what you have stated though, I would think that somehow the binding you had in your drivetrain with the sudden throttle pull caused the ESC to pop, and not the battery pack. Did you friend explain to the tech that he had a binded up drivetrain, and gave her the goose anyway?
Based on what you have stated though, I would think that somehow the binding you had in your drivetrain with the sudden throttle pull caused the ESC to pop, and not the battery pack. Did you friend explain to the tech that he had a binded up drivetrain, and gave her the goose anyway?
Even with all this being said so far I have not had any issues, im just worried now.
