Electric 1/8 Rules Debate
02-16-2009, 02:57 PM
#17
The 5-6S guys who know what they are doing do. Rules have to be tailored for all skill levels. The beginner guys that are new to R/C (not just 1/8 electric) will run whatever makes their car fastest and will not understand why you would want to run a slower motor. Why run slower?
A hard case is a must. Anyone who has raced for some period of time can tell storied of dented and crash damaged NiMH cells.And the first time someone's battery breaks loose and gets jigsawed by the spur gear or other rotating component will be happy they had the extra protection of a hard case.
A hard case is a must. Anyone who has raced for some period of time can tell storied of dented and crash damaged NiMH cells.And the first time someone's battery breaks loose and gets jigsawed by the spur gear or other rotating component will be happy they had the extra protection of a hard case.
1/8 electric isnt exactly a 'beginner' class.
hardcases dont do much besides weigh down the car and not let you see if a cell has puffed. With the common 3 straps and velcro on battery used there should not be any batteries flying around. I think most people on here have spent enough money and know enough to protect their investment.
There are no roar approved 6s packs, and there is no way I can fit 3x2s packs in my car, nor will i run 4s when it is 115F outside.
I think rc pro has it down pretty good with the rules.
02-16-2009, 03:00 PM
#19
That still way more expensive then the common zippy pack that people use, and even more expensive then the better neu power packs. I can get a 6 cell 4000mah+ battery for 135 shipped to my door and its not coming from zippy, nor trinity. When someone can make a hardcase namebrand 6s that can match that, let me know.
02-16-2009, 03:02 PM
#20
None of the hard cased batteries are "Efficiently Priced", the expense alone could kill the class before it starts. I say, have a designated battery tray that protects the cells. Then you can run ANY battery and not worry about rules or safety. 
The Max Weight rule seems like a bad idea. A heavy car isn't really more dangerous, but it won't handle as well as a similar car that weighs less...
That should be incentive enough on its own. How much less damage would a 7 lb 15 o.z. car do, than an 8lb 2 o.z. car? 
I understand the theory, but 8th scale is kinda like Formula One. Sure, there'll be some tech tards and noobs that make boo boos and even hurt people. But they can do that just as easily with the current crop of approved nitro 8th scales. 
As for cell limit, 5S and 6S can run cooler than an identical car with 4S. Down here, that will become more of an issue as the weather gets warmer. I stared messing with brushless 8th scale in Late Fall. Average temps were in the 60s and 70s. I had thermalling issue already. During the summer, it gets into the 100s. My 4S, even geared very conservatively, might not cut it when it gets warm again.
If trying to limit cells is an attempt to keep them under control, I think you'll find the difference is minimal. Sure, some "Genius" can build a ballistic land missile, but he's not likely to win the race based solely on the top speed of his car. Again, I believe the setups will govern themselves when it comes to racing purposes. Besides, if there's a particularly dangerous guy racing a very fast car at your track, I'm certain the track owner/operator would ask him to shape up or ship out. No reason to limit the more "responsible" ones, and keep us from racing.
The Max Weight rule seems like a bad idea. A heavy car isn't really more dangerous, but it won't handle as well as a similar car that weighs less...
That should be incentive enough on its own. How much less damage would a 7 lb 15 o.z. car do, than an 8lb 2 o.z. car? I understand the theory, but 8th scale is kinda like Formula One. Sure, there'll be some tech tards and noobs that make boo boos and even hurt people. But they can do that just as easily with the current crop of approved nitro 8th scales. As for cell limit, 5S and 6S can run cooler than an identical car with 4S. Down here, that will become more of an issue as the weather gets warmer. I stared messing with brushless 8th scale in Late Fall. Average temps were in the 60s and 70s. I had thermalling issue already. During the summer, it gets into the 100s. My 4S, even geared very conservatively, might not cut it when it gets warm again.
If trying to limit cells is an attempt to keep them under control, I think you'll find the difference is minimal. Sure, some "Genius" can build a ballistic land missile, but he's not likely to win the race based solely on the top speed of his car. Again, I believe the setups will govern themselves when it comes to racing purposes. Besides, if there's a particularly dangerous guy racing a very fast car at your track, I'm certain the track owner/operator would ask him to shape up or ship out. No reason to limit the more "responsible" ones, and keep us from racing.
We can debate the 5S 6S until we turn blue in the face. In my opinion, the future of the calss depends on a 2 - 2S battery standard.
02-16-2009, 03:05 PM
#21
1/8 electric isnt exactly a 'beginner' class.
hardcases dont do much besides weigh down the car and not let you see if a cell has puffed. With the common 3 straps and velcro on battery used there should not be any batteries flying around. I think most people on here have spent enough money and know enough to protect their investment.
There are no roar approved 6s packs, and there is no way I can fit 3x2s packs in my car, nor will i run 4s when it is 115F outside.
I think rc pro has it down pretty good with the rules.
hardcases dont do much besides weigh down the car and not let you see if a cell has puffed. With the common 3 straps and velcro on battery used there should not be any batteries flying around. I think most people on here have spent enough money and know enough to protect their investment.
There are no roar approved 6s packs, and there is no way I can fit 3x2s packs in my car, nor will i run 4s when it is 115F outside.
I think rc pro has it down pretty good with the rules.
02-16-2009, 03:08 PM
#22
Yes but MaxAmps is the most expensive battery on the market, everyone knows they are all show and no go, they wont even tell you where they get their cells from, or show technical info, etc. Price compare with another company, like SMC. SMC is legit.
I like hardcases if they get more prevelant, im sure they will.
02-16-2009, 03:12 PM
#23
From what I have seen and heard, the hard case packs offer little more in the way of safety. Unless the cells are silicon encapsulated inside the hard cases they can slide around just like a soft case pack in a battery tray. This is especially a problem for hard case packs because you can't see the damage until after it blows up! Most of the packs that I have seen go up are due to improper charging. Does a hard case do anything for this? No.
As for there being 74 approved hard case packs, no there are not in terms of 4S packs. It is not a good idea to run two 2S packs in series and I can't believe that some companies are promoting it. I also can't believe that some companies recommend charging without taking advantage of balance taps. In my opinion, any charger that doesn't use the balance taps during charging should be banned! It is just plain stupid to assume that the cells will always charge up in perfect harmony. Chargers that don't use the taps have no idea what is going on in the pack. In a 4S pack you could have cells with the following voltages
3.0 3.5 3.5 3.5
This would be a pack that may be near death. What does a typical charger see, 13.5 volts and nothing more. It will attempt to charge until the overall pack voltage hits 16.8V. I think you can easily see how this could be bad.
4S limit = BS
Weight Max = BS
Hard Cases = BS
As for there being 74 approved hard case packs, no there are not in terms of 4S packs. It is not a good idea to run two 2S packs in series and I can't believe that some companies are promoting it. I also can't believe that some companies recommend charging without taking advantage of balance taps. In my opinion, any charger that doesn't use the balance taps during charging should be banned! It is just plain stupid to assume that the cells will always charge up in perfect harmony. Chargers that don't use the taps have no idea what is going on in the pack. In a 4S pack you could have cells with the following voltages
3.0 3.5 3.5 3.5
This would be a pack that may be near death. What does a typical charger see, 13.5 volts and nothing more. It will attempt to charge until the overall pack voltage hits 16.8V. I think you can easily see how this could be bad.
4S limit = BS
Weight Max = BS
Hard Cases = BS
02-16-2009, 03:16 PM
#24
From what I have seen and heard, the hard case packs offer little more in the way of safety. Unless the cells are silicon encapsulated inside the hard cases they can slide around just like a soft case pack in a battery tray. This is especially a problem for hard case packs because you can't see the damage until after it blows up! Most of the packs that I have seen go up are due to improper charging. Does a hard case do anything for this? No.
As for there being 74 approved hard case packs, no there are not in terms of 4S packs. It is not a good idea to run two 2S packs in series and I can't believe that some companies are promoting it. I also can't believe that some companies recommend charging without taking advantage of balance taps. In my opinion, any charger that doesn't use the balance taps during charging should be banned! It is just plain stupid to assume that the cells will always charge up in perfect harmony. Chargers that don't use the taps have no idea what is going on in the pack. In a 4S pack you could have cells with the following voltages
3.0 3.5 3.5 3.5
This would be a pack that may be near death. What does a typical charger see, 13.5 volts and nothing more. It will attempt to charge until the overall pack voltage hits 16.8V. I think you can easily see how this could be bad.
4S limit = BS
Weight Max = BS
Hard Cases = BS
As for there being 74 approved hard case packs, no there are not in terms of 4S packs. It is not a good idea to run two 2S packs in series and I can't believe that some companies are promoting it. I also can't believe that some companies recommend charging without taking advantage of balance taps. In my opinion, any charger that doesn't use the balance taps during charging should be banned! It is just plain stupid to assume that the cells will always charge up in perfect harmony. Chargers that don't use the taps have no idea what is going on in the pack. In a 4S pack you could have cells with the following voltages
3.0 3.5 3.5 3.5
This would be a pack that may be near death. What does a typical charger see, 13.5 volts and nothing more. It will attempt to charge until the overall pack voltage hits 16.8V. I think you can easily see how this could be bad.
4S limit = BS
Weight Max = BS
Hard Cases = BS
based on that logic then all lipo's should be banned as stupid people are gonna do stupid things.
02-16-2009, 03:19 PM
#26
The 1/8 electric thing is a lot like the early days of brushless and LiPo. Therer were earlyy adopters who argued endless for the technology to be approved/legalized/accepted and when it was many complained that they did not like the rules!
The rules are the rules and there is nothing that says they will not be adjusted in time based on the needs of the users and those organizing races.
The rules are the rules and there is nothing that says they will not be adjusted in time based on the needs of the users and those organizing races.
