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Old 02-11-2009, 06:38 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by bradfox2 View Post
Ill support zippy beacuse they are so much cheaper. The market will obviously decide where to go to purchase cells. Zippy is great but when other competitors drop their prices, I will switch.

For instance NEU just had a sale of 6s 4300 pack for 129.00. That is extremely competitive to zippy packs. Once American made packs can get that low, I will definitely buy from them.


And the thing about zippy is that I can get 2-3 packs for what it would cost to buy one polyquest, good neu pack, or thunderpower pack. For that kind of price, 3 zippys will almost certainly have the lifespan of 1 quality pack, and i can run 3 times as long, so really its a better buy even if the zippys go bad faster.

And taking apart and resoldering them is pretty easy. Nothing to be scared of, just be careful and there is no problem.

We really need a good battery manufactuer in the US to sell quality cells for a reasonable price, model the business same as zippy, no frills, just increase the quality and charge the extra 20-30 pack for it. I would most certainly pay a small extra charge to have a quality usa made pack.

I wonder why companies like are in this thread wont make 6s and 5s packs. There is a market for them.
I think SMC is trying to accomodate everyones needs, I says we need time to let this market develope and it is slowly doing that.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:25 PM   #122
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I can only speak for myself, but I was going to go with the ThunderPower 5000/40c until yesterday. I think the type of support from Danny/SMC will go a long way with other consumers too. Danny you must have spent a lot valuble time answering questions ASAP and communicating with everyone that could have been spent working. To me, that means you truely believe in what your doing and the product you represent. That's why I'll go SMC for my new LiPo's. I'm taking this winter off to "retool" my "race shop" to LiPo's. It's not a cheap venture, but will definately save me $$$$ in the long run; aside from the convenience factor.
Thanks I have been on these message boards since 1997 trying to help as I feel the Internet is a great thing. There are guys that can get a bit old to listen to but in general most are nice and like to share info.

I've been racing a long time and my goal was to sell packs that offer the best performance. When I started I had a job in hobbyshop so I'm use to helping and trying to make others enjoy this great hobby/sport. Now I'm fortunate enough to be able to make a living doing something I truly enjoy.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:43 PM   #123
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I am excited to get some SMC lipo's for my RC8, hence my prodding to get Danny to make one,a nd ill follow thru and buy some. But I have a 4s zippy and it cost me $68, for real. and similiar ones can easily cost $250. Very hard to justify, unless you are very wealthy, I am not. THough I will pony up for the SMC batter but I bet it wont go for $250 either, but the ones made by Maxamps go for that much. Heck I have one of their packs. But I get your point and its valid to me.
trout

Since we feel we have a very high quality Lipo with great performance and cycle life we have decided to venture into the flight market and were releasing 70 new part numbers for this market. This is why we can do an AE pack as we already have the tooling for a 2700 cell that will fit in a 4S2P pack.

While studying the flight market we noticed that some seem to want to buy the cheapest as they feel companies that offer high end packs are just making huge amounts of profit. That is not the case as if I take Zippy for example I can't buy a pack directly from our supplier at the price that Zippy sells to the racers/fliers. This can mean one of 2 things. Either our supplier is making allot of profit or there are different grades of Lipos. In this case there are different grades and it has to do with C rate and materials.

Our current 28C packs and C-MAX packs use 80% Japanese materials and 20% Chinese materials that make no difference whether they come from Europe , Japan , China or somewhere else.

Our 24C packs use 60% Japanese materials and 40% Chinese materials. By using 20% more Chinese materials we can offer packs at a lower price. The Chinese materials used in this case are the best Chinese materials that are stable and reliable and will be consistent from batch to batch. So the perofrmance of the pack is still very good and the price is lower.

I did ask our supplier if he could make cheaper packs and he told me that if we use more Chinese materials we can have a better price but he can't guarantee that the packs will be as reliable and they may fluctuate from batch to batch due the materials not being as consistent.

As I'm one to try and learn as much as I can about what I do and sell I decided to purchase 2 Zippy flight packs to have them tested for true C rate and cycle life. So the test will consist of finding the C rate at 90% capacity retention as I know the C rate they claim is inflated as this can be seen by there burst rate. Typically a good Lipo will have double the burst rate of it's C rate. So a 25C should have 50C burst rate. The cycle life test will be at 50% of the true C rate and we will let the pack cycle until it drops down to 50% of it's original capacity. We will take one of our packs and do the same cycle life test so this will give us the cost per cycle. So in the end we will see if a Zippy pack at 50 bucks is cheaper per cycle than a 100 dollar SMC pack. This will be a very interesting test and as soon as I have the results I will post them regardless of the outcome.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:53 PM   #124
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After reading more posts I find it sad that some of you think that Zippy or any other who is selling cheap is doing so because everyone else is out to rip you off.

The fact is that Zippy is buying direct and selling direct. You can't compare a company who supports the distritbution channel to an online place in HK that sells direct. A company supporting the distribution network is supporting the local shop and track which is what makes this hobby/sport happen.

Next time some of you go race at an event and see companies that are sponsoring the race for it to happen and giving door prize for you guys to win please notice that the majority of these companies are going through distribution. I don't think Zippy is sponsoring many races.

Like I said in my post above I can't even buy a pack at the price that Zippy sells some of there packs. That should make you guys wonder.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Since we feel we have a very high quality Lipo with great performance and cycle life we have decided to venture into the flight market and were releasing 70 new part numbers for this market. This is why we can do an AE pack as we already have the tooling for a 2700 cell that will fit in a 4S2P pack.

While studying the flight market we noticed that some seem to want to buy the cheapest as they feel companies that offer high end packs are just making huge amounts of profit. That is not the case as if I take Zippy for example I can't buy a pack directly from our supplier at the price that Zippy sells to the racers/fliers. This can mean one of 2 things. Either our supplier is making allot of profit or there are different grades of Lipos. In this case there are different grades and it has to do with C rate and materials.

Our current 28C packs and C-MAX packs use 80% Japanese materials and 20% Chinese materials that make no difference whether they come from Europe , Japan , China or somewhere else.

Our 24C packs use 60% Japanese materials and 40% Chinese materials. By using 20% more Chinese materials we can offer packs at a lower price. The Chinese materials used in this case are the best Chinese materials that are stable and reliable and will be consistent from batch to batch. So the perofrmance of the pack is still very good and the price is lower.

I did ask our supplier if he could make cheaper packs and he told me that if we use more Chinese materials we can have a better price but he can't guarantee that the packs will be as reliable and they may fluctuate from batch to batch due the materials not being as consistent.

As I'm one to try and learn as much as I can about what I do and sell I decided to purchase 2 Zippy flight packs to have them tested for true C rate and cycle life. So the test will consist of finding the C rate at 90% capacity retention as I know the C rate they claim is inflated as this can be seen by there burst rate. Typically a good Lipo will have double the burst rate of it's C rate. So a 25C should have 50C burst rate. The cycle life test will be at 50% of the true C rate and we will let the pack cycle until it drops down to 50% of it's original capacity. We will take one of our packs and do the same cycle life test so this will give us the cost per cycle. So in the end we will see if a Zippy pack at 50 bucks is cheaper per cycle than a 100 dollar SMC pack. This will be a very interesting test and as soon as I have the results I will post them regardless of the outcome.

Ballsy but you obviously have faith in your product! No matter the outcome I commend you for your efforts to try and make this a fair,safe and affordable hobby for all.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:59 PM   #126
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My test will either prove that I'm right or wrong but I want to know.

I would bet a good amount of money with anyone that the C rate will be lower and I know the cycle life will be lower as well but the test will reveal by how much.

So if I can prove that an SMC pack will cost the end user .25 cents per cycle and the Zippy pack will cost him .30 cents per cycle that will be good to know. Only one way to know and it's to do the test. I hope it will be done in 3 weeks.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:03 PM   #127
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Well hell I cant wait that long! lol
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:34 PM   #128
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So performance and price is what is important to consumers. Do we dare take to this to a deeper level of morality and responsibility of the industry to safety for the general public and REAL UN testing? I will be the first to admit that the lipo batteries are much better than they were and the UN Tests are on the verge of ridiculous. However these tests exist for the benefit of those that are not in RC but are effected by the presence of lipos and the risks they include being shipped all over the country by many means. That includes direct sales from overseas.

Do we care? They go fast and they are cheap. Where do we draw the line picking and choosing what rules we ignore to save a buck. What really separates some batteries is the cost of doing it right and consistent quality controls. Companies that do it right simply have a higher product cost.

Given the recent issues from China with toys, food products and health supplements that all have things in them that actually kill people, it is clear they are not concerned. I have seen many UN testing reports that are simply bogus. A child can type up passing test results and supply them. If you think the government is watching out for you wake up! Money drives the system and the bargain hunters are feeding the monster that some day may bite us. These be treacherous waters right now and the energy density levels just keep getting higher and higher. For long term success of lipo in RC something has to change. We simply cannot compete with those that are not bound by the same level of responsibility at the expense of the general public.

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True, true, true
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:50 PM   #129
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My test will either prove that I'm right or wrong but I want to know.

I would bet a good amount of money with anyone that the C rate will be lower and I know the cycle life will be lower as well but the test will reveal by how much.

So if I can prove that an SMC pack will cost the end user .25 cents per cycle and the Zippy pack will cost him .30 cents per cycle that will be good to know. Only one way to know and it's to do the test. I hope it will be done in 3 weeks.
Hell, the fact your willing to put yourself out there on a limb is more than anyone else is doing. Im on your side. if you are better or equal, its a win in my book and you get my business, regardless I committed to two 4s RC8 packs, and I fully plan to hold up my end of the bargain. ill give you that for free.

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Old 02-11-2009, 09:30 PM   #130
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Middle to late March.
So you will have the same packs, only with bullet connectors right?
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:47 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
My test will either prove that I'm right or wrong but I want to know.

I would bet a good amount of money with anyone that the C rate will be lower and I know the cycle life will be lower as well but the test will reveal by how much.

So if I can prove that an SMC pack will cost the end user .25 cents per cycle and the Zippy pack will cost him .30 cents per cycle that will be good to know. Only one way to know and it's to do the test. I hope it will be done in 3 weeks.

Definitely want to see the results of this test. If smc proves better, ill buy packs from them.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:15 PM   #132
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I have a question... So i did the math and the max amps that my motor will use is 52.7 amps... so does the C even matter as long as the amp out put is over that? I have no idea if the C would add in more power, but im almost sure it wont. If anyone has any insight i appreciate it.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:31 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
So performance and price is what is important to consumers. Do we dare take to this to a deeper level of morality and responsibility of the industry to safety for the general public and REAL UN testing? I will be the first to admit that the lipo batteries are much better than they were and the UN Tests are on the verge of ridiculous. However these tests exist for the benefit of those that are not in RC but are effected by the presence of lipos and the risks they include being shipped all over the country by many means. That includes direct sales from overseas.

Do we care? They go fast and they are cheap. Where do we draw the line picking and choosing what rules we ignore to save a buck. What really separates some batteries is the cost of doing it right and consistent quality controls. Companies that do it right simply have a higher product cost.

Given the recent issues from China with toys, food products and health supplements that all have things in them that actually kill people, it is clear they are not concerned. I have seen many UN testing reports that are simply bogus. A child can type up passing test results and supply them. If you think the government is watching out for you wake up! Money drives the system and the bargain hunters are feeding the monster that some day may bite us. These be treacherous waters right now and the energy density levels just keep getting higher and higher. For long term success of lipo in RC something has to change. We simply cannot compete with those that are not bound by the same level of responsibility at the expense of the general public.

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Good post but you forgot to say Arrrr
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:36 PM   #134
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Good post but you forgot to say Arrrr
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:39 PM   #135
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So you will have the same packs, only with bullet connectors right?

The EFRA packs will have a thinner case as it's part of the rules. So we will have 2 packs a 4700/40C and 5000/28C.
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