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Old 02-13-2009, 01:06 PM   #166
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Where are your actual test results posted? Have you ever been threatened by a lawsuit from some big name company who shall remain nameless that spends a fortune on marketing and exaggerates their batteries capabilities?
The test is not done yet and when I have it I will post it on this thread.

I don't like getting publicity by posting results of our competitors products. In this case I'm doing a test to educate myself and I will post the results so everyone can learn the differences between a high end Lipo and a lower end Lipo.

Never been threathened with a lawsuit and if I was I would counter sue for false advertising if there packs would have false C rate or mAh.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:52 PM   #167
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Danny,

When you do your test, can you video tape the test from start to finish and post the resultant video as well as your summary on the resultant data? This will take care of any naysayers on either end of the discussion.

Also, do you know if ROAR is thinking of testing cells for C Rating or come up with a standard testing method for C Rating? It seems that if ROAR wants lipo safety, part of there reasoning for a hardcased shell on a car lipo, seems misleading C ratings generated by tests that are not standardized could be a safety issue as well.

If ROAR would direct that lipos must be tested on X style of equipment for C Rating or follow a certain testing procedure that they confirm on the packs sent to them that they do there other tests on anyway, then it seems racers could put faith in the C Ratings that are stated on the packs?

One thing I would love to see in the mags is a "battery" shootout for sport style packs and there top racing packs.

The test will be done in China as the cycle life test is very time consuming and needs an automated cycling system that will register the cells capacity every cycle.

As far as filming the test that will not be possible as it will take a long time to get the test done.

I have posted C rate test results from actual info provided by the high amp discharger.

Many already know that I'm honest and would never do a false test so if some think my test will not be accurate or true I can't do much about that and they can do there own tests to see if I'm honest.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #168
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I have no problem with ROAR doing C rate tests as long as it's done properly. We use the highest standard to label our C rate and as long as the ROAR tests would show that our C rate is better or equal to what we claim I would be for that. I don't think ROAR can do a test that would give different C rates as that would be causing to much confusion. So our flight packs would have a certain C rate and the same cells in a ROAR approved hardcase would have another C rate. I have offered to help ROAR with C rate testing so if they need my help I will do my best to give it to them.

I know have the proper equipment to do C rate testing in house.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:16 PM   #169
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danny i know this thread is about companies and if they are being truthful about their c rating claims. but you yourself have stated that there are currently no specific rules a company has to follow to get the results like cycle life and % of mah drained at a given c rate.
so it is possible that these companies cells can meet the standard for the test parameters they chose and not what your company has chosen.
in all honesty i dont care if your 30c 5000 battery can perform better and longer than someone elses 30c 5000 in a true 30c / 150a draw test. for those who havent thought about it that test will dump a 5000 cell in about 2 minutes and that is if it is a true 5000 mah cell.
in the rc car world we simply dont even come close to those numbers. i am more interested in how well packs do based on real world amp draws that rc cars pull, approx 15 to 30a draw depending on the car and motor being used.
some will say that the data will directly trasnsfer but i disagree. maybee your packs will get 30% more good cycles and hold voltage better at 150a draw but only get 10% more at a real world amp draw like 25 or so. would you do a real world test also to see if there is a noticable difference?
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:54 PM   #170
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danny i know this thread is about companies and if they are being truthful about their c rating claims. but you yourself have stated that there are currently no specific rules a company has to follow to get the results like cycle life and % of mah drained at a given c rate.
so it is possible that these companies cells can meet the standard for the test parameters they chose and not what your company has chosen.
in all honesty i dont care if your 30c 5000 battery can perform better and longer than someone elses 30c 5000 in a true 30c / 150a draw test. for those who havent thought about it that test will dump a 5000 cell in about 2 minutes and that is if it is a true 5000 mah cell.
in the rc car world we simply dont even come close to those numbers. i am more interested in how well packs do based on real world amp draws that rc cars pull, approx 15 to 30a draw depending on the car and motor being used.
some will say that the data will directly trasnsfer but i disagree. maybee your packs will get 30% more good cycles and hold voltage better at 150a draw but only get 10% more at a real world amp draw like 25 or so. would you do a real world test also to see if there is a noticable difference?

Actually there are certain standards when calculating C rate , mAh and cycle life. The problem is that you can use different ones and there is none that are enforced/regulated. I have had discussions with our supplier about this and he would really like to see an International standard that every manufacturer would have to use but at this time there isn't. The best thing we can do is to use the higest standards to rate our cells/packs and that is what we have been doing.

One of the reason why things are out of control with C rate is due to many companies buying from resellers. There is a hadful of Lipo manufacturers but there are 100s of resellers pretending to be manufacturers. To try to get market shares they will offer inflated C rates and keep there price low. These resellers can also switch manufacturers on there customers. So one time you get a good batch and the next time it can be a different cell with different performance. The Lipo market is a very tricky one and it's up the the end reseller to make sure he's selling packs that have true C rate and good cycle life.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:07 PM   #171
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There is nothing illegal about lawfully purchasing a consumer product, testing it, and publishing the results, even if they're unfavorable to the manufacturer. Look at Consumer Reports -- that's exactly what they do. It's only libel if the disparaging statements are demonstrably false. It's clear that Danny plans on describing his entire apparatus and method, and as long as he does this as well as publishing the entire, unaltered, repeatable test results he's totally clear.
Companies do get litigious in just such situations.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:11 PM   #172
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Probably 2 months after there released as were slow to get our site updated.

We hope to have the E-Revo 9000mAh packs in by the first part of March.
Thanks for the reply, I plan to run RC pro rules, which allow up to 6s. These look like great basher packs though. Whats the height? Might be a great Pro Truck (stadium truck/ 20 minute heats) pack
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:49 AM   #173
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With 1/8th electric qualifiers being 5 or 7 minutes and mains at 10 minutes I don't understand the desire for larger capacities? It's just un-necessary weight that puts these cars out of balance. We have already seen enough data from folks running this class that with an efficient setup 200mah per minute or less is very achievable. Using a higher 250mah per minute, 12 minutes of run time and only a 80% discharge you would only need a 3,750mah pack to get the job done.

The Mfg that offers a 35C or higher pack in this range will get a LOT of business. They'll certainly get mine!
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:48 AM   #174
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With 1/8th electric qualifiers being 5 or 7 minutes and mains at 10 minutes I don't understand the desire for larger capacities? It's just un-necessary weight that puts these cars out of balance. We have already seen enough data from folks running this class that with an efficient setup 200mah per minute or less is very achievable. Using a higher 250mah per minute, 12 minutes of run time and only a 80% discharge you would only need a 3,750mah pack to get the job done.

The Mfg that offers a 35C or higher pack in this range will get a LOT of business. They'll certainly get mine!
this debate will go on for eternity it seems, speaking of 1/8 buggy here so nobody gets confused. i am currrently running on a small tight by 1/8 standards indoor track. my setup is a 4s 5000 lipo with the very mild, medusa 36 60 2000 motor and that is comparable to the mild nue 1512 2.5.
with this setup i am using about 1500 ma in a 5 minute race with a little warmup and the race lasting more than 5 min. so i go about 6 minutes and that equals out to 250 mah per min.
other much faster guys there are using more powerful motors and are able to push their cars harder since they are better drivers and they are using between 2000 and 2500 mah. so they are using between 330 and up to over 400 mah per min.
on a larger outdoor track i suspect i will use around 350 mah per minute so that means in a 10 min main i will use about 3800 ma when you consider the overall runtime to be about 11 min. i dont know how much more a fast driver with a hotter setup would use in this case but it will be more.
it seems that a few guys here can get super great mileage and the rest of us get closer to what i have posted depending on their ability and setup.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:55 AM   #175
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Thanks for the reply, I plan to run RC pro rules, which allow up to 6s. These look like great basher packs though. Whats the height? Might be a great Pro Truck (stadium truck/ 20 minute heats) pack
Does RC Pro rules allow for softcase ?

The 9000 pack will be 29mm x 45mm x 159mm.
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Old 02-14-2009, 05:04 PM   #176
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the rc pro series based on what I recall allows softcased lipos.
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Old 02-14-2009, 05:42 PM   #177
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That is good to hear as we have 4S,5S and 6S softcase 40C and 28C packs coming out for the flight market which will work in the 1/8th cars.
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C Rating battery craze! True or untrue!!-40cpacks.jpg   C Rating battery craze! True or untrue!!-28cpacks.jpg  
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:55 AM   #178
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That is good to hear as we have 4S,5S and 6S softcase 40C and 28C packs coming out for the flight market which will work in the 1/8th cars.
Any idea on MSRP for these packs yet?
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:59 AM   #179
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Any idea on MSRP for these packs yet?

Still need to figure out the prices. Will work on pricing this coming week.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:26 AM   #180
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Still need to figure out the prices. Will work on pricing this coming week.
Great! Thanks. I see some lower capacity 4S packs in a nice small form factor on that list that I can't wait to try!

I have some of the 25C RFI packs coming. They are priced reasonably but I'm not sure what cell Mfg they are using or how good they perform. They are only 25C and are 52mm wide too so they don't fit in many battery trays. I have tested 20C packs and they just don't cut it in 1/8th scale conversions. The 30C Enerland cell packs and Protek RC packs at Amainhobbies have performed very well so I'm pretty confident that you want 30C or higher for this class. But I wanted something cheap to test while I waited on premium higher C rated packs. So we'll see how these 25C packs do. I don't know what cells are in the ProTek RC packs but I know Kendall has some new 30C and 35C 4S packs coming in a hard case.

The battery race sure is on!....LOL If the SMC LiPo's are anything like the SMC NiMh packs I used to use in 1/10th scale, I'm sure they 'll be of the highest quality and performance!
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