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Team Durango DEX410 4WD 1/10 Off-Road Buggy Thread

Old 08-25-2014, 10:35 AM
  #16591  
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Originally Posted by vito
whats in the book
Not sure what's in the book, as I don't have a v4
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:38 AM
  #16592  
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Originally Posted by vito
my diff set up is 7000 front 300 rear shocks are 35 front and 27.5 rear?
300? or 3000?
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:40 AM
  #16593  
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1.7. 2
1.7.3
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:33 PM
  #16594  
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Originally Posted by vito
1.7. 2
1.7.3
It may work. 1.5x3 didn't have enough pack until I went up in oil, then I lost the rebound so I went back to 1.7x2. 1.7x3 might work with a heavy oil 40-45? Can't say
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:54 PM
  #16595  
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Personally, I'm still mystified by shock pistons. My v3 came with 6 hole pistons and at my track lately I've been using 6 hole 1.2 front and 1.3 rear, 35 wt (450 cst oil) in all 4 with stock springs and like the way it's settled the buggy (following Fred Swain's balancing technique for equal wheel rates). I still have enough pack for the big jumps.

What's the advantage you're seeing with 2 hole or 3 hole over 6 hole pistons?
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:12 PM
  #16596  
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In short, the total handling of the car. More pack, less rebound and vice versa. I run less holes to achieve more pack and less body roll compared to more hole pistons. If you had a second set of shocks and ran a six hole setup back to back with a two hole setup you would be amazed how different the car felt. You have to try it to understand it.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:15 PM
  #16597  
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Originally Posted by Bman's 3XNT
In short, the total handling of the car. More pack, less rebound and vice versa. I run less holes to achieve more pack and less body roll compared to more hole pistons. If you had a second set of shocks and ran a six hole setup back to back with a two hole setup you would be amazed how different the car felt. You have to try it to understand it.
What pistons do you run on a bumpy'ish track with jumps to flat
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:44 PM
  #16598  
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Originally Posted by av4625
What pistons do you run on a bumpy'ish track with jumps to flat
It's hard to say, I don't stray to far from my normal setup. But I will say that I tried RC Shox two stage pistons and loved them on blown out tracks. But on hard packed fast tracks they are not so good, but that's to be expected. I can't say for sure as every track is different. I been driving the 410 since 2009. I started with small bores then 6 hole BB when they came out, then 4 hole and then 2/3 F/R and now just two holes. My car just keeps getting better but everyone has their preference. I also tried small holes with light oil and larger holes with heavy oil. I know what I liked or didn't like, but what I should of really done was take detailed notes.... I have a couple sets of two stage pistons for sale if anybody is interested, just pm me.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:32 PM
  #16599  
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Originally Posted by jreeves
Personally, I'm still mystified by shock pistons. My v3 came with 6 hole pistons and at my track lately I've been using 6 hole 1.2 front and 1.3 rear, 35 wt (450 cst oil) in all 4 with stock springs and like the way it's settled the buggy (following Fred Swain's balancing technique for equal wheel rates). I still have enough pack for the big jumps.

What's the advantage you're seeing with 2 hole or 3 hole over 6 hole pistons?
Okay, lets do this chart for a comparison. The numbers below are the total area of holes in a piston.

(mm) holes 2 holes 3 holes 4 holes 5 holes 6
1.0 1.571 2.356 3.142 3.927 4.712
1.1 1.901 2.851 3.801 4.752 5.702
1.2 2.262 3.393 4.524 5.655 6.786
1.3 2.655 3.982 5.309 6.637 7.964
1.4 3.079 4.618 6.158 7.697 9.236
1.5 3.534 5.301 7.069 8.836 10.603
1.6 4.021 6.032 8.042 10.053
1.7 4.540 6.809 9.079 11.349

Given the same ratio in hole area and same shock oil. let;s say approx 4.5 ration which is 1.7x2, 1.4x3, or 1.2x4. Statically they will feel the same on the bench when the shock moves slow. However then the car hits a rut, the 1.7x2 holes will absorb it better, while the 1.2x4 till tend to pack during compression kick the car up as the smaller holes don't allow very fast shock movement, while the bigger holes are better for ruts. The 1.7x2 will tend to bottom out easier vs the 1.2x4 as it will pack better. So given the same ratio, I tend to use bigger holes on bumpy tracks, and smaller holes on smoother tracks with large jumps. If the track is somewhere in bettween rutted and has large jumps, maybe 3 holes might be better or a split piston (1.4x2 + 1.0x2)

If you are comparing 1.2x6 and 1.3x6 on the stock v3 pistons vs the v4 using the 1.6x2 and 1.7x2 in the rear. The hole ratio is much larger. You may have the pack on compression due to the many small holes resisting the oil flow, however, statically for weight transfer the car may be too light or too quick to shift weight making the car difficult or nervous to drive, twitchy under braking and it may want to spin at mid corner.

I use the oils to control weight transfer and then the pistons to control pack keeping the same ratio if possible. More holes for more pack, less holes for better bump handling.
I may adjust oil weights based on temp. or go slightly up or down based upon the size of the track and flow. Technical smaller tracks and indoors favor a slightly lighter oil setup (37wt front, 27wt rear) to help with weight transfers at slower speeds, and a larger flowing track prefers a heavier one to prevent the car from hooking or dumping in turns (42wt front, 32wt rear) which is based on the stock v4 pistons - 1.6x2 front and 1.7x2 rear. I found that the 2 holes work very well for tracks with mid size jumps and bumpy.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:07 PM
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Thanks Dino, that helps a bunch and makes perfect sense to me.

I need to take all that knowledge and a variety of pistons to the track and do some testing!
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:59 AM
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IT REALLY HELPS to have two sets of shocks built up to go back and fourth. This way you can easily feel the differences AND you can try changing just one end of the car at a time. Front first or rear first etc. I'd probably start with 2 hole and 35wt in one set and 6 hole 40wt and work around from there using the chart that Dino made. Total area charts are the way to go. Makes it easy to see what's what.

I've also been testing the MIP bypass pistons this way. So far I haven't been able to get my two stage pistons to feel close to my regular pistons it terms of pack so it's tough to run them at OCRC with the larger triple jumps they are running currently. I"ll keep working on this and come back to share.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:12 AM
  #16602  
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I'm still having the drive shaft popping out issue I mentioned a while back so I ordered a new set of the DJoints. I know they are slightly longer than the original V3 driveshafts I have but I did pop out the front shaft as well as the rear drive shaft last time I was at the track more than a few times. I've modified the front end of the car's top brace by cutting off some ball cups threaded portion and inserted into the brace so the screws have thread when using the Alum servo mount as it protrude into the upper brace like the plastic version does. I thought this was I can't find the link to share so if someone knows this trick please fill in. Has anyone else run into this? I wonder if I were to also use the alum diff hoops if it would happen a little less. This kinda makes me think of developing a top brace for the chassis to minimize flex.

I realize that if I didn't come up short on the triple and case the landing (hitting in the middle of the chassis on landing) this wouldn't be much of a problem, just looking to make the car a little more bulletproof.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:34 AM
  #16603  
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BTW, looks like I'm keeping my 410 a little longer since the D413 isn't really available yet. I may even get a v4 to replace my v3....Although I will eventually try the D413. Unless Durango comes out with similar stuff on their V5
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:21 AM
  #16604  
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Originally Posted by 13Maschine
I'm still having the drive shaft popping out issue I mentioned a while back so I ordered a new set of the DJoints. I know they are slightly longer than the original V3 driveshafts I have but I did pop out the front shaft as well as the rear drive shaft last time I was at the track more than a few times. I've modified the front end of the car's top brace by cutting off some ball cups threaded portion and inserted into the brace so the screws have thread when using the Alum servo mount as it protrude into the upper brace like the plastic version does. I thought this was I can't find the link to share so if someone knows this trick please fill in. Has anyone else run into this? I wonder if I were to also use the alum diff hoops if it would happen a little less. This kinda makes me think of developing a top brace for the chassis to minimize flex.

I realize that if I didn't come up short on the triple and case the landing (hitting in the middle of the chassis on landing) this wouldn't be much of a problem, just looking to make the car a little more bulletproof.
Are you running the original v3 center diff? Or the new V4 dual slipper diff. The dual way center slipper diff outdrives are longer. Perhaps you can try those. Also having the 2 way slipper allows you to change drive bias from front to rear by making extra holes in the slipper pad. I normally run 6 to 8 1mm holes in the rear slipper pad to allow the rear to slip more, which gives me more forward drive, especially on low to med grip tracks. This helps the car track straight like an arrow when accelerating out of a corner. On high bite or carpet you may want more rear drive, thus you can either use standard pads front and rear or perhaps have a few holes drilled on the front pad.
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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yeah, it's the new dual slipper, but I have the older v3 driveshafts which we determined are slightly shorter but 2 mm I believe. It was a while back when we discussed it. That's why I think the new DJoints should help a little bit.
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