Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
Team Durango DEX410 4WD 1/10 Off-Road Buggy Thread >

Team Durango DEX410 4WD 1/10 Off-Road Buggy Thread

Like Tree22Likes

Team Durango DEX410 4WD 1/10 Off-Road Buggy Thread

Old 04-04-2014, 09:38 AM
  #15616  
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South dakota
Posts: 276
Default

I've currently got the kit pistons with 42.5 front and 45 rear. My main issue is we have some screws holding the carpet on our jumps and landings that stick up just ever so slightly. We sometimes put in a large jump maby 20'+and when my car compresses on the lip it tends to strike said screws. My thinking is going up a few steps in the spring will help eliminate this. I'm not too worried about what the pros are doing as they are not racing at my track. I also use the fredswain method to tune my kits so I'm really just wondering what would pair with the rear dark blue spring so I don't have to spend a ton of money on a bunch a springs I probably won't use.
Sodakota is offline  
Old 04-04-2014, 11:07 AM
  #15617  
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,169
Default

Originally Posted by Sodakota
I've currently got the kit pistons with 42.5 front and 45 rear. My main issue is we have some screws holding the carpet on our jumps and landings that stick up just ever so slightly. We sometimes put in a large jump maby 20'+and when my car compresses on the lip it tends to strike said screws. My thinking is going up a few steps in the spring will help eliminate this. I'm not too worried about what the pros are doing as they are not racing at my track. I also use the fredswain method to tune my kits so I'm really just wondering what would pair with the rear dark blue spring so I don't have to spend a ton of money on a bunch a springs I probably won't use.
I don't think you really need to go that much higher on the spring rate. I think you just need change your pistons to a 4x1.2mm or 3x1.5 by drilling the blanks that came with your kit and using lighter oil. Remember thicker oil packs late in compression, thinner oil gets turbulent faster and creates pack earlier in the stroke allow the car to be plush yet still pack up on jumps. A lot of people end up going harder on the oils thinking it will pack, but rather all you are doing is slowing the speed of the compression, not actually creating pack. Perhaps ask Fredswain for his suggestions as you are using use setup method.
Dino_D is offline  
Old 04-04-2014, 04:56 PM
  #15618  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (63)
 
LOSI123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gold Coast-Australia
Posts: 2,617
Trader Rating: 63 (100%+)
Default

Could anyone tell me what the inner and outer hinge pins are in thickness?
LOSI123 is offline  
Old 04-04-2014, 06:32 PM
  #15619  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (10)
 
rcjunky1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,202
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

3mm inner, 2.5mm outer, if I'm not mistaken
rcjunky1 is offline  
Old 04-04-2014, 10:10 PM
  #15620  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (63)
 
LOSI123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gold Coast-Australia
Posts: 2,617
Trader Rating: 63 (100%+)
Default

thank you .

Dino D,
Do you know what effect it has on the V4 moving the caster block forward in the Arm? (kit position is all the way back)
I know it will effect wheelbase and ackerman and ride height etc
What would it do to ackerman? im guessing more ackerman which in theory books says less twitchy and easier to drive, but i have also read different in regards to what happens to the wheels when first turned ie:inner wheel turns in more and peopel say that will give you more turn in, which sounds like more twitchy.
do you or any one know for sure what it will do to handing.
Regards
Paul
LOSI123 is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 06:12 AM
  #15621  
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
 
RC10Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,816
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Dino_D
A lot of people end up going harder on the oils thinking it will pack, but rather all you are doing is slowing the speed of the compression, not actually creating pack.
Going up higher in oil will cause more "pack". A fellow forum member put together quite a nice chart relating piston sizes, oil weights, dampening force, and piston velocities. At no point on the graph does going to a lighter oil yield less dampening force (I don't say pack because several forumites have ran the calculations and discovered our shocks don't reach turbulent flow. It's all laminar).

Here is the post, and the chart is attached as a spreadsheet at the bottom.
RC10Nick is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 07:26 AM
  #15622  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 353
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by RC10Nick
Going up higher in oil will cause more "pack". A fellow forum member put together quite a nice chart relating piston sizes, oil weights, dampening force, and piston velocities. At no point on the graph does going to a lighter oil yield less dampening force (I don't say pack because several forumites have ran the calculations and discovered our shocks don't reach turbulent flow. It's all laminar).

Here is the post, and the chart is attached as a spreadsheet at the bottom.
I saw a video were two dampers was connected rod end / rod end. One with light oil and small holes and the other with thick oil and big holes. When moved slowly against each other they were moving equal, but when moved fast the one with thin oil got much harder to push than the one with thick oil. I would say that was because of pack.
ridgeracer is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 08:40 AM
  #15623  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (71)
 
Bman's 3XNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ct.
Posts: 3,044
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ridgeracer
I saw a video were two dampers was connected rod end / rod end. One with light oil and small holes and the other with thick oil and big holes. When moved slowly against each other they were moving equal, but when moved fast the one with thin oil got much harder to push than the one with thick oil. I would say that was because of pack.
Interesting. I would like to see the video you have a link? I believe thinner oils pack sooner.
Bman's 3XNT is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 10:53 AM
  #15624  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,556
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I was gonna jump in and say I don't think we reach velocities high enough for turbulent flow however I think with emulsion shocks it might be possible due to the air bubbles.
13Maschine is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 11:03 AM
  #15625  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,556
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

We should probably use cavitation for this effect as this seems to be the technical term for this.
13Maschine is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 11:31 AM
  #15626  
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
 
RC10Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,816
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ridgeracer
I saw a video were two dampers was connected rod end / rod end. One with light oil and small holes and the other with thick oil and big holes. When moved slowly against each other they were moving equal, but when moved fast the one with thin oil got much harder to push than the one with thick oil. I would say that was because of pack.
That's because it had smaller holes. *facepalm* What you just posted is completely in line with what I said and the chart I referenced.

Given the same size and number of holes, higher weight oil always has more dampening force.
RC10Nick is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 12:55 PM
  #15627  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 353
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by RC10Nick
That's because it had smaller holes. *facepalm* What you just posted is completely in line with what I said and the chart I referenced.

Given the same size and number of holes, higher weight oil always has more dampening force.
Facepalm ?

Let us say that 25wt oil and 2x1.4 holes gives the same slow motion damping as 40wt oil and 2x1.6 holes. those two will handle very differently in high speed damping.
If it is like you say it wouldnt matter if it is 2,3,4,5 or 6 holes as long as the total volume of the holes is the same. But it matters
ridgeracer is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 02:47 PM
  #15628  
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South dakota
Posts: 276
Default

I'm looking for a spring set that will be stiffer than stock. So I'm thinking about going with dark blue rear springs. Does anyone know what the best front spring to go with it? I'm looking for the spring that will give my car the best ballance. Basically I'm looking for a spring set that compresses and rebounds similar without oil in the shocks
Sodakota is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 03:23 PM
  #15629  
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
 
RC10Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,816
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ridgeracer
Let us say that 25wt oil and 2x1.4 holes gives the same slow motion damping as 40wt oil and 2x1.6 holes. those two will handle very differently in high speed damping.
Of course they will have different high speed dampening. I never said they wouldn't!

Originally Posted by ridgeracer
If it is like you say it wouldnt matter if it is 2,3,4,5 or 6 holes as long as the total volume of the holes is the same. But it matters
I didn't say anything to that effect either. I said smaller holes (given the same number of holes) "pack" more. I think everyone knows that.
RC10Nick is offline  
Old 04-05-2014, 10:10 PM
  #15630  
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,169
Default

Originally Posted by RC10Nick
Going up higher in oil will cause more "pack". A fellow forum member put together quite a nice chart relating piston sizes, oil weights, dampening force, and piston velocities. At no point on the graph does going to a lighter oil yield less dampening force (I don't say pack because several forumites have ran the calculations and discovered our shocks don't reach turbulent flow. It's all laminar).

Here is the post, and the chart is attached as a spreadsheet at the bottom.
Its a good chart and shock dyno test.
2m/s So 1m in 1/2 sec. Or 1/2m in 1/4 sec. or 25mm which is close to our ride height in 1/8th of a sec.
Normally when you are doing a static test on your car to compress the shock on the table, I would say it that it wouldn't even take 1/2 a sec to compress the shock fully down by hand. In reality over a jump the car can bottom out from a jump in a blink of eye.

Using 1.6 and 1.7 the holes are too big in most cases to even cause the oil to become turbulent at that speed of 2m/s. Lighter oil will just flow thru as I don't think the speed might be fast enough, and thicker oil becomes turbulent way later in the stroke that it requires a even higher speed to become turbulent at all. Thus the oil wt will just slow down the shaft or piston speed which is what is being shown on the chart. Which I agree.

Can that person who did that make a chart using lets say 25 or 30wt oil as a control oil and show the difference of pack using the SAME Piston hole Area?

For example. Using a static oil wt. measure 2x1.7, 3x1.4, 4x1.2, 5x1.1, and 6x1.0 which all have approx the same ratio and see. I bet pack will increase exponentially with the 5 and 6 hole combination.
I think a chart like that would be very useful for members here. What i mean by pack is when the light oil with many small holes reaches a point in the velocity where is almost creates a hydraulic lock, in which the shaft speed changes from fast to VERY slow almost at the end of the stroke which helps you from bottoming out only on very big jumps.

THanks

Last edited by Dino_D; 04-05-2014 at 10:32 PM.
Dino_D is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.