Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics >

An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics

An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics

Reply

Old 01-28-2009, 09:59 PM
  #1  
Tech Master
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
 
zipperfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,146
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics

Since it appears RC manufactures read these forums I thought I would start a thread to share our ideas and offer suggestions to Losi, Associated and anyone else who is considering or currently producing an 1/8 scale electric buggy.

I feel that in general the electric conversion kits work OK, but I would like to offer my two cents about what I would like to see. 1/8 scale is getting big in my area and many racers are making the switch.

Losi-

Make an 8ight E 2.0 electric buggy.
Offer support on your website for the buggy, including set up sheets and tuning recommendations specific to 1/8 scale electric buggies.
Your battery tray and ESC mount already accommodate different sized batteries so you are OK there.
Spend some more time on R&D on the 1/8 ESC's. I have heard of or personally seen way too many fry.
Make more 8ight E bodies. I can't find a replacement anywhere.

Associated-

Rethink your battery tray for the RC8 electric conversion. There are way too many people out there using four, five and six cell batteries for you to shut them out.
If you want to sell more product appeal to a larger audience.
The other problem with the buggy in general is that if you use anything other than two (fairly light) 7.4 stick packs, the car is weight biased to the battery side.
If you want us to use two stick packs at least offer info on how to wire two packs in series or offer an adapter. (I could not find any info on your website) other than your recommendations to use YOUR batteries.

And to all manufactures of 1/8 scale equipment...

Most club racers I have spoke with want to know what set up will last for a 20 minute main. Since most of us are running with the nitro guys, we need to have a set up that can last the duration of a 20-30 minute main.
there are so many motor and battery set ups that it is hard to determine which set up works best.

Do some research with 4S, 5S, and 6S systems. If you are going to offer a complete line of products for 1/8 scale electric, do it right.

Last edited by zipperfoot; 01-29-2009 at 08:05 AM.
zipperfoot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 11:01 PM
  #2  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (21)
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default


Well said. I will agree that many are ready to jump in and try this new Class... and its not just in the U.S.... but around the World!
STEALTH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 06:13 AM
  #3  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (75)
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,504
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

There needs to be some sort of standardization of the battery/motor size.
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 06:30 AM
  #4  
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london,ON
Posts: 46
Default

This is a great idea. If we tell them what we want atleast one of them will listen.

I don't feel its fair to make them make claims of runtime however. Gearing, driving style, battery brand/cappacity, motor system and the racing surface all impact the run time.

If I could drive smoothly on a large sweeping track for 20 minutes with a car and then took the same car to a tight twisty track and mashed the throttle all the time I might only get 12 minutes.
Crazy_jay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 06:36 AM
  #5  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,854
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

If you need a 20 minute main RELIABLY, it means you will need about 23 minutes of run time if you factor in warmups.

Runtime depends on track and driving style, but most of it comes down to picking the right setup that isn't overpowered. Generally speaking, the following setups should yield 20 minutes of hard racing with the following Neu Motors. These setups depending on gearing would be just as fast or faster than ANY nitro, so they are no underpowered by any means.

4s 6000mah = 2000kv motor (1512 2.5d)
5s 5000mah = 1700kv-2000kv motor (1512 3d, 1512 1.5y, 1512 2.5d)
6s 4000mah = 1400kv-1700kv motor (1512 3d, 1512 3.5d, 1512 1.5y)

We race 15 minute mains most of the time at my track and I have never dumped prior to finishing with a 5s 4000 & 5s 4300 pack running the 1512 3d. This also includes putting in about 1.5 - 2 minutes of warm up laps. I managed to get a full 24 minutes of racing out of 5s 5000 pack in an rc8 during a 30 minute main once before the battery dumped on me.
Edumakated is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 06:46 AM
  #6  
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
 
kvrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,000
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr View Post
There needs to be some sort of standardization of the battery/motor size.
if you want some sort of rule roar has already done this for the motor and battery. i dont agree with roar limiting the pack to 4s because this will stop many from exploring the benifits of 5 and even 6s with the proper kv motor.

many will argue that we need some guidlines so the big manufacturers can have a box to build within and this is true. unfortunatly this will also begin to stunt a class that i personally think is not done growing in terms of develpoment. a large majority of the guys running these cars use packs that are larger than roars spec, are not hard cased and happen to cost less than half of the only roar approved pack.
and unless roar has dropped their max weight rule of 8lbs then only a very few of the cars currently running will pass this rule using a safe capacity 4s 5000 pack.
i say let the class be open in terms of batterys and motors and make the min weight 7.5 lbs like i have been saying for months. this one simple rule will prevent companies from making light "money pit" cars and also make using a light smaller capacity battery not worth it.
as long as we are using aluminum chassis we can buy /make a battery tray that fits our needs and bolt in on.
kvrc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 06:56 AM
  #7  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,854
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by kvrc View Post
if you want some sort of rule roar has already done this for the motor and battery. i dont agree with roar limiting the pack to 4s because this will stop many from exploring the benifits of 5 and even 6s with the proper kv motor.

many will argue that we need some guidlines so the big manufacturers can have a box to build within and this is true. unfortunatly this will also begin to stunt a class that i personally think is not done growing in terms of develpoment. a large majority of the guys running these cars use packs that are larger than roars spec, are not hard cased and happen to cost less than half of the only roar approved pack.
and unless roar has dropped their max weight rule of 8lbs then only a very few of the cars currently running will pass this rule using a safe capacity 4s 5000 pack.
i say let the class be open in terms of batterys and motors and make the min weight 7.5 lbs like i have been saying for months. this one simple rule will prevent companies from making light "money pit" cars and also make using a light smaller capacity battery not worth it.
as long as we are using aluminum chassis we can buy /make a battery tray that fits our needs and bolt in on.
Definitely agree with this. By it's nature, 1/8 electric is an open mod class. RCPro Series has the right approach by basically saying we don't care what you run as long as it is a standard 1/8 buggy, 4-6 cell lipo, and charge in lipo sack. No hard case required. Three 10 minute A mains. Follow KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

The bigger issue is that most of us have to race with nitros still, so our setups are dictated by what is needed to run in 15 minute+ mains. If we get our own class with shorter mains, I can see many people dropping back to 4s maybe with smaller packs or much smaller 5s packs as that is all you really need to make 10 minutes. We are probably a ways off before e 1/8 gets it own class at most tracks though.

I had thought of writing a LONG post one day summarize ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW about 1/8 electric so you don't waste your money and time. LOL. Maybe if I get a break at work I will this week.
Edumakated is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 07:01 AM
  #8  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (75)
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,504
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

Race lengths would also be nice to have standardized. As someone who is looking into getting into the class this summer it is a bit difficult to figure out what to get. If there was some sort of standardization then it would be easier for people to get into the class.
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 07:09 AM
  #9  
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
 
bcrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Junction CO
Posts: 1,721
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by zipperfoot View Post
And to all manufactures of 1/8 scale equipment...

Most club racers I have spoke with want to know what set up will last for a 20 minute main. Since most of us are running with the nitro guys, we need to have a set up that can last the duration of a 20-30 minute main.
there are so many motor and battery set ups that it is hard to determine which set up works best.

Do some research with 4S, 5S, and 6S systems. If you are going to offer a complete line of products for 1/8 scale electric, do it right.
I have just recently built a brushless 1/8 scale car and I love it. 90% of my racing is indoor on a 10th scale track. As of now we do not have enough people with E 1/8 scale cars to have a class so I don't race it. I race my 10th scale cars.

What I understand from reading several posts on RCtech, SGrid and AE forums is that very few people are getting 30 min run times with their E 1/8 cars. With that said, E 1/8 should be run in their own class. It only takes four to make a class at many of the tracks that I have been to. With the popularity of E 1/8 scale gaining across the country I don't think that they should be in the same race as nitro.

I believe that there will be rules in place at many tracks this next year to keep a separate class for E 1/8 and nitro. E 1/8 classes will have shorter races and may even go to a triple A main set up. If you want to run longer mains with nitro then run nitro
bcrazy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 07:29 AM
  #10  
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london,ON
Posts: 46
Default

I don't think its practical to run 30 minutes in a buggy on a single pack. I made a connectorized quick release tray to minimize downtime. once the body is off it takes only 3 second to change the pack.

changing the battery once is acceptable to me in a 30 minute mains if it can be done very quickly(equivelent of 5 nitro pits approximately 4 seconds each=20seconds) I can remove the body, change the battery and re-install the body in less than 20 seconds.

so quick relaease trays for the manufacturers that are listening!
Attached Thumbnails An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics-load2.jpg   An open letter about 1/8 scale electrics-load3.jpg  

Last edited by Crazy_jay; 01-29-2009 at 07:49 AM.
Crazy_jay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:22 AM
  #11  
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
 
kvrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,000
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

mains length should be dictated by the tracks timeframe but at this time not be longer than 10 minutes.
going longer just adds to the systems heat and puts your packs closer to full discharge and shorter life.
i am totally against having races long enough that a car has to pit. this brings up many problems like needing extra packs, a pit guy, less reliable battery hold down system, extra stress on the electronics ect. we dont need long mains to get guys to switch from nitro, in my opinion just the oppisite needs to be done. if not they will just see the same problems as listed above and figure it isnt a big deal to switch.
kvrc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:27 AM
  #12  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,854
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by kvrc View Post
mains length should be dictated by the tracks timeframe but at this time not be longer than 10 minutes.
going longer just adds to the systems heat and puts your packs closer to full discharge and shorter life.
i am totally against having races long enough that a car has to pit. this brings up many problems like needing extra packs, a pit guy, less reliable battery hold down system, extra stress on the electronics ect. we dont need long mains to get guys to switch from nitro, in my opinion just the oppisite needs to be done. if not they will just see the same problems as listed above and figure it isnt a big deal to switch.
+1. Once we have a class, I can't see mains longer than 10 minutes. Hopefully, we will get multiple mains though. I prefer 15 minute mains, but everyone doesn't have a setup that can reliably make 15 right now. A big NO on pit stops.
Edumakated is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:28 AM
  #13  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (33)
 
Jason Pelletier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 8,820
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

I like the dual 2s lipo idea. That's prompting me to get a rc8e !!!
Jason Pelletier is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:46 AM
  #14  
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,334
Default

The problem I see with the 6 and 5 cells is how do you control the guy who shows with the 3200kv motor with 6 cells? As a track owner I have to put Marshalls on the track and supply Insurance. Race days are getting long now and 30 and 20 minute mains cause longer days.How do I tell my 1/10 scale racers they have to run hard case but not 1/8th scale? My voice is 4 cell Hardcase limit and 10 minute mains. Just my opinion.
Whosold is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:52 AM
  #15  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,854
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Whosold View Post
The problem I see with the 6 and 5 cells is how do you control the guy who shows with the 3200kv motor with 6 cells? As a track owner I have to put Marshalls on the track and supply Insurance. Race days are getting long now and 30 and 20 minute mains cause longer days.How do I tell my 1/10 scale racers they have to run hard case but not 1/8th scale? My voice is 4 cell Hardcase limit and 10 minute mains. Just my opinion.
Why do you tell the 1/10 guys to run hardcase? Are you following ROAR rules? At our track, people run whatever they want as long as they charge in a liposack/fireproof container. 1/10 guys run softcase packs too.

Only a nutjob would try to run a 6s with a 3200kv motor at a track. Odds are he won't be finishing the race because the car will be uncontrollable on the track.

We run 5 & 6 cells because they run more efficient, not because they are faster. My fastest setup was a 4 cell with a 3300kv. However, I could barely get 10-12 minutes of run time whereas the 5 cell setup allows 20 minutes and the car is much more drivable..
Edumakated is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Terms of Service