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Old 11-20-2008, 12:31 PM   #31
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Heh, If Losi were investing money in race kits then they would have been on the market already.

Simple fact is a bigger company bought the name for its race pedigree and then whored it out on nothing special RTR cars.

And it doesn't look to me like that worked at all, They seem to be the king of Micro and that's about it.....
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:38 PM   #32
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In my area losi sponsors quite a few guys and they are really good to their racers, for what that worth i don't think horizon is bad at all.

So all in all if they treat their guys good, why are they no longer into racing ? Seems to me they are.

Don't be upset they make a bunch of RTR MT's and Mini's. Those haven't effected there racing it's just inaddition too.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:50 PM   #33
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RTR are a great thing and have helped bring new people into the hobby. Who are these people? Their single moms that come by the track and want to get their kids involved. Their grand parents who want something to do with their grandkids, and they are people who want to give it a try with out forking out big cash.

I know at our track it has been a big help and has brought many into the hobby. RTR's have a place and it is budget minded people who want to try something different. It has nothing to do with wal-mart or laziness.
A kit cost almost as much as some RTR and on top of that you still need a radio, motor, and speed control and now that just doubled the RTR price. Because of course if your going to "Do it right" why buy a cheap radio and speed controller? The point is RTR's have a very important place in this hobby and are what makes money for these companies. I know people who race very competitively with their RTR's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
I hope this does not get nasty...but here it goes.

Times where different even as close as 10years ago, to put stuff in big bags we are a nation of consumers, we don't want to build anything anymore, we want it and we want it now and when it stops working we toss it in the trash and buy another one. Some have called this the Wallmart Syndrome, and feel it is part of what is wrong with this country.

Don't get me wrong there is a need for a RTR, but who over the age of 10 can't build a kit? "It gets people who did not have the ability to build a full on race kit..." Who are these people?

I guess I come from a different generation...one where you built things, everything from Heath kits to RC cars. Making it was part of the fun, and when it did not work just right you knew how to fix it.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:02 PM   #34
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i agree with what losi is doing except when they come out with cars they arent new platforms they change one little thing and put a new name on it WTF!!
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post

Don't get me wrong there is a need for a RTR, but who over the age of 10 can't build a kit? "It gets people who did not have the ability to build a full on race kit..." Who are these people?
My oldest is 1....if he can't figure it out in 5 minutes, he gets frustrated, calls it stupid, and gives up...walks away....no patience

but my 4yr old is always grabbing the Losi wrench and taking the tires off trucks.....there is hope yet!
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesnMeyer View Post
RTR are a great thing and have helped bring new people into the hobby. Who are these people? Their single moms that come by the track and want to get their kids involved. Their grand parents who want something to do with their grandkids, and they are people who want to give it a try with out forking out big cash.
You help make my point, single moms that come by the track and want to get the kids involved....I read that as put Jr. in front of the TV so I can talk on the cell phone with my girlfriends. Heaven forbid that the mom in your example would actually want to work on a project with their children, something they could do together, spend time together, see something start in a bag of parts and end with something they both could be proud of...and you never know mom might just like it enough to give it a try herself...it has been known to happen. My wife just LOVES to paint bodies, she even bought herself an airbrush just for that one reason.

Grand perents fall in to the same arena...however I would doubt that there are many of that age that would want to buy then build, but I guess they are out there, but all my same comments above fit here as well, and most people actually want to spend time with their grand kids.

I am not discounting the value of the RTR car, far from it they are needed in the hobby. But with our original post, and I agree with what was posted a few lines up. Losi sold the company to Horizon, and they took the company in a different direction, not good not bad just different, with out a doubt they are trying to keep a foot in both ponds...only trouble with that is you get your feet too far apart and then you have to pick one up. When that happens the Losi and all that went with it from years ago will go away and they will be just a RTR company like Traxxas...again there is NOTHING wrong with that.

And anyone that says that a company that just makes RTR cars can't have real "race" cars they are just flat wrong and snobby, something that abounds in this hobby. Just because a given car is RTR does not make it any less of a "race" car.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:26 PM   #37
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Losi reminds me of GT bicycles when I raced BMX back in the day. GT always had the best factory riders and Pros, but no serious racer actually raced GT Bicycles because the perception was that GT was sold to little kids jumping ramps in their cul de sac (bashers), not hard core racers even though the race spec GT bmx frames were very high quality.

The racers preferred smaller "garage" companies like Boss, Cycle Craft, White Bear, Phase II, Free Agent, Elf, Titan, etc which focused on high quality race products and unless you actually race seriously, the average kid would have never even heard of these companies.

Like Losi now, GT sought to grow bigger and increase market share by selling "rtr" low level bmx bikes to non racers. It made them more money in the short term but definitely hurt their brand in the long run. Most BMXers never even consider a GT bike now. I see the same thing happening with Losi... seems like X-ray, Mugen, Kyosho, O'Donnell are choosing to cater to the racers at the expense of the larger market share. However, that larger market share can also be very fickle... when the bashers put down the 60 mph monster trucks in favor of a new Xbox 720 or whatever it is called, the companies will have lost the revenue stream and may have irreversabily damaged their brand among the core supporters - racers.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kgtp View Post
My oldest is 1....if he can't figure it out in 5 minutes, he gets frustrated, calls it stupid, and gives up...walks away....no patience

but my 4yr old is always grabbing the Losi wrench and taking the tires off trucks.....there is hope yet!

There you are, the 4yr old wants to understand it, if for no other reason then Dad does it. You never know he may be like the boy in the slash thread...driving a track at 3yrs.

Patience is something that has to be learned, just like learning not to hit your little brother when he takes your stuff. It is up to us Dads to teach them this stuff, and the best way is with hobbies...no matter what they may be.

Good 'ole father-son times.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:27 PM   #39
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I've only been in the hobby since last March. I started out with a Rustler my brother convinced me to buy. To be honest I would have scoffed at the idea of buying a $200+ kit that didn't even include the electronics to run it. Since then I have sold the Rustler, purchased a XXX-T CR kit, and converted both an 8ight and 8ight-T to electric. Let's be honest, the rc hobby does not have a much of a presence outside of its own enthusiasts. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a Losi, Associated, Kyosho, etc. on national tv? When I tell people I race rc cars, 9 out of 10 reply with, "I didn't know they even did that." But, they typically think its really cool and follow up with questions about it. So I think no one should be upset when companies like Losi release models geared towoards the average person, as long as it doesn't take away from the quality of their race spec cars and trucks, which it appears to have not.

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Old 11-20-2008, 01:54 PM   #40
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The racers' adage:

Race On Sunday, Sell On Monday
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #41
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Instead of focusing on Losi bashing and all the BS that these threads create. Why doesn't anybody focus on the things Losi is doing that is ahead of the curve? Like the Electric Eight. First company to offer the first full blown electric 8th scale right? Of course if AE or Kyosho would have done this first they would have been pioneers. I do wish they would design a new 10th scale 4wd buggy though.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:45 PM   #42
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The first factory electric 1/8 scale buggy was Caster Racing's EX-1:
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
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The first factory electric 1/8 scale buggy was Caster Racing's EX-1:
I thought this was announced like a month or so ago? It's the first RTR 1/8 Buggy at least....
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:01 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
I hope this does not get nasty...but here it goes.

Times where different even as close as 10years ago, to put stuff in big bags we are a nation of consumers, we don't want to build anything anymore, we want it and we want it now and when it stops working we toss it in the trash and buy another one. Some have called this the Wallmart Syndrome, and feel it is part of what is wrong with this country.

Don't get me wrong there is a need for a RTR, but who over the age of 10 can't build a kit? "It gets people who did not have the ability to build a full on race kit..." Who are these people?

I guess I come from a different generation...one where you built things, everything from Heath kits to RC cars. Making it was part of the fun, and when it did not work just right you knew how to fix it.

I love building things, but that being said....an RTR is by far and away cheaper to get started. I am not racing pro level, or anything above your basic races. Really....I haven't even started to, but want to race. I can't drop 500+ on one car to race once a month. The only track around here is 1+
hours away, and I can't afford, nor want to drive that much. I understand some of you can/do. A kit has it's place in the market, as do RTR's. But just because someone can afford to run an RTR and not a kit, and doesn't build it out of the box doesn't (in my opinion) make them any less than those who do. A lot of it is the driving from what I see...top of the line car....crap driving...may as well have bought a RTR. Once I run whatever I get for christmas a while, i plan on upgrading and building a car for onroad. One I will actually build. I just have to get my foot in the door first. Warm up to things, see what prices are and how quick I would needs parts.

It's marketing to the needs of the people who are paying and keeping your LHS alive. But thats just me, and that probably doesn't mean a thing
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
You help make my point, single moms that come by the track and want to get the kids involved....I read that as put Jr. in front of the TV so I can talk on the cell phone with my girlfriends. Heaven forbid that the mom in your example would actually want to work on a project with their children, something they could do together, spend time together, see something start in a bag of parts and end with something they both could be proud of...and you never know mom might just like it enough to give it a try herself...it has been known to happen. My wife just LOVES to paint bodies, she even bought herself an airbrush just for that one reason.

Grand perents fall in to the same arena...however I would doubt that there are many of that age that would want to buy then build, but I guess they are out there, but all my same comments above fit here as well, and most people actually want to spend time with their grand kids.

I am not discounting the value of the RTR car, far from it they are needed in the hobby. But with our original post, and I agree with what was posted a few lines up. Losi sold the company to Horizon, and they took the company in a different direction, not good not bad just different, with out a doubt they are trying to keep a foot in both ponds...only trouble with that is you get your feet too far apart and then you have to pick one up. When that happens the Losi and all that went with it from years ago will go away and they will be just a RTR company like Traxxas...again there is NOTHING wrong with that.

And anyone that says that a company that just makes RTR cars can't have real "race" cars they are just flat wrong and snobby, something that abounds in this hobby. Just because a given car is RTR does not make it any less of a "race" car.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but what single mom wants bags of parts to dig through when dinner is needed, clothes need washing, and everything else a single mother does, or mother of any amount of kids...Let alone if the kid tears into it alone....missing parts galore. You'll be lucky to find any of them at that point.

That being said....I agree that just because a truck or car comes out of the box a built truck/car....it can still be very competetive at the same time. Just because it's built, doesn't mean its finished. The kid may not have put it together but you can bet he's tearing it apart when it brakes and installing newer and better parts.
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