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Old 09-30-2008, 02:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Briguy View Post
Your link is for the 2007 rule book , not 2008 .


http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/..._Rule_Book.pdf

Page 45, 8.8
My bad...LOL

Aside from whether they're legal or not, there's no such animal (from anything I've seen) as a 17.5 or 13.5 sensorless motor anyways. The ".5" means that they would have to be wye-wound -- and that ain't gonna run well sensorless from a stop.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:18 PM   #17
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Is it that hard to push a button to set the esc ? I`ve had fans break on my Sphere also and it happens to all . I`ve always liked Novak products and don`t see what the fuss is about . Everyone likes different electronics and what ever works for ya is good . I like the GTB and suppose for those that can`t push a button better go to Castle products .
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Briguy View Post
Is it that hard to push a button to set the esc ? I`ve had fans break on my Sphere also and it happens to all . I`ve always liked Novak products and don`t see what the fuss is about . Everyone likes different electronics and what ever works for ya is good . I like the GTB and suppose for those that can`t push a button better go to Castle products .
I've always liked how you can just unplug stuff on a Novak. Switches and input leads get torn up, fans break...it's BS that all that stuff is soldered onto the board in an LRP.

Plus -- that stupid "motor killer" automatic brushed mode deal is ridiculous. Loose sensor wire = fried brushless motor.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #19
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I have a Novak XRB 8.5 and a Sidewinder 5700.

Its not even close - the Sidewinder 5700 is significantly faster on the street and on the track.

So, unless you're going to run stock 13.5 or 10.5, get the Sidewinder.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ed237 View Post
I have a Novak XRB 8.5 and a Sidewinder 5700.

Its not even close - the Sidewinder 5700 is significantly faster on the street and on the track.

So, unless you're going to run stock 13.5 or 10.5, get the Sidewinder.
One reason is because the 8.5 is only rated at 5000 kv and second XBR is only rated at 120 amps .
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briguy View Post
One reason is because the 8.5 is only rated at 5000 kv and second XBR is only rated at 120 amps .
The amp rating on an ESC isn't what it puts out...it's what the FETS will flow before they go "poof". The ESC will only allow the current that the motor's resistance and the batteries IR as well as the FET's resistance will allow. It's all just Ohm's Law...

It could be rated at 1000 amps and it will only allow the current that all the resistances in the circuit will flow.

A 5700 MM is faster than an 8.5 Novak, because it's a more powerful motor type...they're wound differently and they will pass more current. It's an "apples and oranges" deal.
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #22
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Anyone got a link to the Sphere? Never heard of it....
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:47 PM   #23
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Anyone got a link to the Sphere? Never heard of it....
http://rc10.com/lrp/esc.brushed.brushless.htm
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:47 PM   #24
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Anyone got a link to the Sphere? Never heard of it....
http://www.teamassociated.com/lrp/es....brushless.htm
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:04 PM   #25
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So, how is the Havoc any different to the XBR?
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:38 PM   #26
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The differences are mainly in programming (from their website):

Havoc
Fully programmable, user-friendly interface with adjustable parameters:
1 Minimum Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
2 Drag Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
3 Dead Band (5 settings from 2-6%)
4 Minimum Drive (5 settings from 1-5%)
5 Throttle Curve (Linear and Expo)
6 Brake Frequency (7 settings from 1-8 kHz),

XBR
Adjustable Parameters within each profile:
1 Minimum Brake,
2 Drag Brake,
3 Dead Band,
4 Minimum Drive
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
I've always liked how you can just unplug stuff on a Novak. Switches and input leads get torn up, fans break...it's BS that all that stuff is soldered onto the board in an LRP.

Plus -- that stupid "motor killer" automatic brushed mode deal is ridiculous. Loose sensor wire = fried brushless motor.
I have a 5.5 Brushless motor fried to prove that one. Puff of smoke from the windings and it's f#cked because the sensor wire came out, the ESC went "ohhh Brushed, got ya, lets fire Yellow and Blue at the SAME TIME!"
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briguy View Post
Maybe you should reread the rules . Right from their rulebook ,

"Sensored or sensorless motors are allowed in modified motor classes. Only sensored
type motors are allowed for stock and super stock racing."
Don't have to re-read the rules. The guy asked about choosing between a sensored controller and a sensorless controller. As noted in the following comment, that is only a realistic choice to make if you are running other than stock/super-stock. Aside from the issue of back EMF detection because of winding technique, the rollouts required to make effectibe use of the 13.5 and up motors make running sensorless an iffy thing. My comment was based on choice of motors that are actually usable with both sensored and sensorless.

In the classes where you could use a sensorless and have it work to the extent of being competitive with good drivability, the sensorless are legal.

Further, the rule you quote isn't relevent to the original question because the guy asked aboyt getting a Havoc System, which comes with an 8.5 - not legal for stock or super stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
You have a link to that? I tried to search for that phrase at:

http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/2007rulebook.pdf


And I couldn't find it...

Nobody uses sensorless motors in Stock or Super Stock because they're not wound in a legal manner. *That's* is what makes them illegal, not the fact that they don't have hall effect sensors. Legal b/l motors with the proper winds don't make enough back EMF signal to allow a sensorless ESC to locate/sense the rotor properly on startup...so they stutter a little until they get up to speed.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:16 AM   #29
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If money is a factor then noone offers a brushless combo that can match the Sidewinder for the price and features it offers. I have ran many different brushless systems and find my Sidewinder to be as smooth as any system out that I have ran. The ability to adjust the speedo either with my laptop or thru the speedo is a great feature.

If you race some ROAR races then at this time you might want to go with the Novak.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyd View Post
If you race some ROAR races then at this time you might want to go with the Novak.
If you plan run a "stock" class (13.5or 17.5), ROAR or not...no current Mamba system is going to work.
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