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Old 09-14-2008, 10:26 AM   #16
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[QUOTE Losi ROx] I do feel as if Losi is trying to be a Traxxas like company and its certainly not against the law, it just bothers me.[QUOTE]

That is all i was saying... I have absolutely no problem with losi and what i meant earlier is that their products have come out almost every other week at least. I mostly think they need to make more race models other than those just messing around cars.
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:29 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=T4 Razer;4837239][QUOTE Losi ROx] I do feel as if Losi is trying to be a Traxxas like company and its certainly not against the law, it just bothers me.
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That is all i was saying... I have absolutely no problem with losi and what i meant earlier is that their products have come out almost every other week at least. I mostly think they need to make more race models other than those just messing around cars.

You obviously don`t understand it from a business side of things . Just making race kits does not make enough money to keep the business going and is why they sold out to Horizon to begin with . As I mentioned there are more bashers then racers and is why Losi and many others have more RTRs then race kits .
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:39 AM   #18
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I completely understand about business my friend.....I own my own and it is very successful. I also realize that the racers made Losi and they shouldnt be ignored. They need a new 4wd and a new 2wd buggy and new truck to reinvigorate the electric classes which are trying to make a comeback.

Im not going to sit here and argue with you man.....go on another thread and argue with someone else. Im just going to express my opinions.
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:41 AM   #19
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I`m not arguing , I`m stating facts . Also don`t tell me where to go post .

Losi just won the electric 2008 Tumbleweed Classic a few weeks ago . Seems like the current lineup is doing just well compared to others . Along with club races the Losi lineup is just as competitive as the AE lineup .
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LosiRox View Post
I just get aggrivated when on these forums people get basically attacked for voicing an opinion. I do feel as if Losi is trying to be a Traxxas like company and its certainly not against the law, it just bothers me. Gil Losi Jr. obviously didnt like the direction his company was moving in.....he left. If they were still hardcore about racing and had plans to develop race cars in the electric market, I cant see him leaving. He is a 4wd guy and if they had any plans of making a new car there is no way he would have left. you see right when he got to Kyosho he starts working on the 4wd.

Im just scared that in 5 years, my XXXcr, XXX4, XXXTmf2, XX4 will be outdated and nothing new will be in the works. They are still viable race cars but if they do not come out with something new, eventually they will be too outdated.

Just an opinion and sorry for being so aggressive.

Maybe it's that you haven't been around the hobby as long as some of the other contributors to this discussion, for if you had you would have seen some of the major changes in this hobby over the last 20 years and been able to identify the fact that the major manufacturers don't make the big bucks off any of us racers but actually off the RTR crowd.

You named a few race-specific platforms, and while it's great for any of us racers it costs probably millionsssss of dollars for a company to develop a totally new vehicle and the return on it is relatively small --- and that's likely the reason companies like Losi "rebadge" pre-existing platforms to extend the selling life and recoup the monies invested in getting the original race-version to market.

Losi was sold out to Horizon long before Gil Jr. ever left the payroll and you can be sure the family saw the handwriting on the wall as the RTR market took over and gained a larger foothold in the industry and looked on as Traxxas and others passed them by. So by the time he left Horizon he was no longer calling any of the shots.
Also, Gil's bread and butter was 2wd long before he ever got involved in 4wd, and likely the only reason he got involved in 4wd at Kyosho was that they had already seen that it was the next "hot" or buzzword class of car to become part of --- but the latest greatest thing is also what propels this hobby and gets new people involved, so this year's 4wd buggy or Slash will be next year's something else.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #21
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My first race day was June 1st 1996.....I have raced in 3 Tampa Winterchamps, Losi Shootout in Dalton Ga., and Offroad Champs in Dalton, Travelled all over the southeast hitting major indoor tracks, MnM in Houston, etc etc etc.....I have been around. I did take a break from 2002 until last year and thats when alot of the changes in the industry took place. Im a hardcore race guy and although Im not a top notch racer, I love it...therefore, it bothers me the direction that Losi has taken. There seems to me that ,at least in the southeast, there are more electric 1/10th and 1/8th nitro tracks than there ever was. I can travel to Florida and the tracks are endless all the way to Miami. This tells me that the electric 1/10th offroad market is alive and well. I go on Egay and there are tons of racers trading and buying their wares on there because of the resurgence of the classes. So to say Losi has to ignore these guys is unfounded to me and does not hold water. When did the XXX, XXXT, XX4, and XXX4 paltforms come out ??? Its time for some new cars is all I am saying. Also, Losi even removed the name TEAM from their logo which tells me that they are full on moving into the basher market. Now, I will admit that I dont not keep up with the factory racers as much as I used to but it is my understanding that Losi does not have the top guys sponsored anymore (1/10th electric). Thats what my associated buddies rag me about constantly anyway. I am just now getting back into hardcore racing and I am going to make a trip to OCRC in Ca. and some of the tracks in Fl. real soon. I am also planning on attending the JConcepts race in Ft. Lauderdale that is coming up.

My entire point is that Losi needs to keep on doing what they are doing but get back into the hardcore race market too. To say that they are not ignoring the race scene of 1/10th electric is not a valid argument to me. They are making the money now so why cant they get the race department kicking again and make some new rides. I love my Losis and to be honest, they are going to have to do something major to top the current 4wd cars they have but it would be huge for them to create some new rides.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:00 PM   #22
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Losi spend alot of R&D money to make the 8ight-E. They were pretty much all over tracks in california testing it. Why would Losi need to come out with a new 2wd truck when it is the best racng truck, the xxx-t cr and ssame goes with the xxx-cr. The 8ight's 3 year old design is still kicking peoples butts and they are making a new 8ight. They really dont even need a updated one and they could still dominate.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:13 PM   #23
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Losi uses RTRs as their cash cow to produce better Team Cars, however I still do not like Losi.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:38 PM   #24
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Losi did well with this market strategy, but imho Associated failed. They did try to make a Race 1/8 scale @ very agressive price. But i found the "Factory Team" misleading, How they can say it a pro or fully race ready when the car handle great but shock are hard to setup and a some parts fail so easily under harsh condition.
That let me wonder if it was really designed by Asso designer and Race tested ?

I hope that new "redo" of there factory team kit will be improved.
As far as i know all black box from Asso are made in taiwan by Thunder Tiger.
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Old 09-14-2008, 03:13 PM   #25
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I'm not trying to fuel the fire here, but I think Losi does have a large list of 1/10 off-road drivers. The XXX-CR has been out like two years now (awesome still) and XXXT-CR has been out since fall-winter 2007. To me they are still in the game. Just something to think about. The few large races I've been to have been won by Losi 4-wheel drive buggies. These were more regional races, not national level.
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:00 PM   #26
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I don't know about some of you guys, but I actually like some of the RTRs that are on the market. I've always bought racing machines, but some of the RTRs out there seems a lot of fun.

Just look at the Traxxas Slash for example. Many hardcore racers have bought one themselves, because it's so much fun! Look at the Losi Desert Truck for another example. It is based off a racing platform, so even if it's in a RTR package, it is race-worthy IMO.

What makes a machine race-worthy? Is a FT B4 so far removed from an RS B4 that it has more advantage over it? As far as I can tell, the blue AE shocks performs the same as the Factory Team Teflon-threaded collar shocks. It's all just psychological that we think that having Titanium shock bodies actually has a "significant" advantage over Aluminum bodies...

Don't get me wrong, I rather buy a top-end kits, I'd buy "Factory Team" kits over "Team" and "RS," but many RTRs cannot be regarded as mere toys. All of them have an open platform for later upgrades, such as a better radio, better ESC, better motor, etc...

I think the RTR markets are great. At my current track, I often see lots of kids get into the hobby with an RTR kit that was just bought at the on-site hobby shop by their parents/grandparents. You can bet that when their car isn't going as fast as some of other regulars', they'll start asking basic questions. Then, when they find out [how expensive] what they will need to add to the RTRs, then the parents/grandparents will cringe

IMO, there's no need to worry about a company just because they're making more RTRs then racing machines. There's no reason to believe that a company cannot do both... IMO, the biggest part of this hobby is having fun, however one accomplishes that, whether it's through racing or just bashing around on neighborhood curbs...
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:10 PM   #27
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WOW , very well put tom_chang79 .


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Old 09-14-2008, 05:27 PM   #28
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Not to poke here, but how old is the xxx design, and I mean the originals, not the cr/mf/bk versions?? I usally run on-road so I am used to the xray mentality of new car every year, and the cars get faster and better. But even xray is slowing that down, they have no new plans for a TC this year or next.
Same could be said of AE the B's are all pretty much the same as when I left off-road years ago, just minor changes. And as for what wins, any PRO can take ANY car and win with it, whether it is a 10 year old design or 10 day old.

The future of electric is BL/Lipo and I think we will start seeing drastic changes coming in designs of new electric vehicles in the next year, everything is based on the NIMH/brushed motor weight distribution, so imho the manufacturers that don't redesign will be left behind quickly. It's not like there is only the big 2 anymore!
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by chensleyrc1 View Post
Not to poke here, but how old is the xxx design, and I mean the originals, not the cr/mf/bk versions?? I usally run on-road so I am used to the xray mentality of new car every year, and the cars get faster and better. But even xray is slowing that down, they have no new plans for a TC this year or next.
Same could be said of AE the B's are all pretty much the same as when I left off-road years ago, just minor changes. And as for what wins, any PRO can take ANY car and win with it, whether it is a 10 year old design or 10 day old.

The future of electric is BL/Lipo and I think we will start seeing drastic changes coming in designs of new electric vehicles in the next year, everything is based on the NIMH/brushed motor weight distribution, so imho the manufacturers that don't redesign will be left behind quickly. It's not like there is only the big 2 anymore!
I think the xxx design was 1st raced in the 1999 worlds. I am not sure though. i think this because on the box of the XXX Buggy it says 1999 world champion.
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosiRox View Post
My first race day was June 1st 1996.....I have raced in 3 Tampa Winterchamps, ......... Im a hardcore race guy and although Im not a top notch racer, I love it...therefore, it bothers me the direction that Losi has taken. There seems to me that ,at least in the southeast, there are more electric 1/10th and 1/8th nitro tracks than there ever was. I can travel to Florida and the tracks are endless all the way to Miami. This tells me that the electric 1/10th offroad market is alive and well..
Using Tampa as an example, there was a time in the late 1980s to early 90s when there was about a dozen electric tracks in the area --- all supported by hardcore racers.
But when the market changed was shortly there after with the advent of nitro 1/10th stadium trucks, then 1/8th monster trucks, then 1/8th buggies and finally truggies and suddenly all the hardcore racers had gone on gas and needed larger facilities and tracks to run.
Now you're lucky to find 3 or 4 total tracks in the whole greater-Tampa area.

That doesn't tell me the electric market is alive and well, it tells me it's barely hanging on. And when companies like Horizon/Losi have to jump into the nitro bandwagon to keep market share and spend all the time they did researching and developing all those products that electric has been left at at the sidelines.

Who's it blame?
All the hardcore racers
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