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Old 09-09-2003, 08:03 PM   #1
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Arrow The right pipe

I got one for you guys

Do you base an engine and pipe combo on the type of engine being used? For example, the RB C5 is more of the top end performing type, as opposed the the WS7 which is more of the bottom end type. Do you mate the the C5 with a pipe which is more of it's type -- like a top end performing pipe? Or, do you mate it with a pipe that is more biased to torque/bottom end?--to bring the bottom end up to par.

I'm asking because I own a C5 that screams, but lacks bottom end. I'm using a Top 0886 pipe, and even tried it with a Whaller adapter. I did experiment with clutches and found one that suits our track. I wonder if I'm using the right pipe in the first place too!
-- Is the 086 pipe a torque biased pipe, or is it a top end performer ...I thought it is torque biased, but I may be wrong
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Old 09-09-2003, 08:48 PM   #2
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All depends on the track. I've heard some engines don't react well to the Waller, and others do. If you need more bottom end, try an 063 pipe(or I've heard the OS 2050 pipe is a good all around pipe). I run on a relatively tight track, where the OS's torque really comes into play when drivers are of equal skill, and my WS7 doesn't get on it out of the corners as much as the OS's do, so I bought an 063 pipe, and played with clutch tuning a bit, and my buggy is really snappy out of the corners now. What clutch setup are you running?
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Old 09-09-2003, 11:48 PM   #3
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I'm using the kyosho composite clutches with 1.0mm springs. I've tried using the aluminum clutches, but the bottom end was really bogging. I also clean out the grease out of the clutch bell bearings and use dry lube or very light oil as to not slip the clutch.

Which is tuned for more bottom end...the 063 or the 086 pipe?
and do you use a bottom end pipe for a torquey motor, or visa versa?

BTW, thanks for responding
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:04 AM   #4
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Try 1.1 springs and a 63 pipe. (63 has more bottom then a 86 ) You can also trim 1mm off the end of the shoes and cut the spring at the first knuckle. Most RB engines lack on the bottom end and they require allot of clutch work to get them to the point where they are good on the bottom. Depending on the buggy you may want to consider changing the gearing. On my K2 with a RB installed I would run a 48 tooth spur but with my picco engines I run the 46 tooth spur.
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:09 AM   #5
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Yeah, definitely try the 1.1 springs, possibly with aluminum shoes. I went from bogging like you describe in my MBX4-XR Works with 1.0 springs(or even 1.1 springs) with mugen black shoes to super snappy throttle with 1.1 springs and mugen aluminum shoes in my MBX5. That was with a WS7, though.
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by KINGZJ
Try 1.1 springs and a 63 pipe. (63 has more bottom then a 86 ) You can also trim 1mm off the end of the shoes and cut the spring at the first knuckle. Most RB engines lack on the bottom end and they require allot of clutch work to get them to the point where they are good on the bottom. Depending on the buggy you may want to consider changing the gearing. On my K2 with a RB installed I would run a 48 tooth spur but with my picco engines I run the 46 tooth spur.
I'm running a K2 using a 13t pinion and 48t spur (as opposed to the stock 46). Bottom end did improve with the use of the 48t spur. I tried lightening the clutch, as well as using harder springs, which resulted in too much slip and overheating of the bell.
I'm hoping with the correct engine/pipe combo I can run my current clutch set up or even softer springs which does not slip or overheat, I can have the bottom end punch I'm looking for
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedydave
Yeah, definitely try the 1.1 springs, possibly with aluminum shoes. I went from bogging like you describe in my MBX4-XR Works with 1.0 springs(or even 1.1 springs) with mugen black shoes to super snappy throttle with 1.1 springs and mugen aluminum shoes in my MBX5. That was with a WS7, though.
The aluminum shoes do grab harder, and stall more with the 1.1 springs. But you say the mugen black shoes bogged more? Im not familiar with the mugen black shoes, but aren't they lighter than the aluminum ones? Could it be because it's a MBX-5? -- I hear that kit comes off the line like a bat out of hell
I'm am really looking to try the WS7II...hopefully It will be a wise invesment
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:21 AM   #8
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Are you sure it is a motor/pipe thing completely? I mean if your buggy does not have forward bite it doesn't matter how much the motor can put down it will still feel soft. How old are your clutch shoes? they are usually only good for about 2 gallons of fuel ( if they are the kyosho fibers) even thought they look ok the heat cycles deteriorate the fibre and cause slippage. It is also kind of a give and take situation if you want bigtime bottom you will overheat the bell and you will go through shoes and you will trash out bearings. Most of the time when I help people the problem was just that the buggy was lacking forward bite and it seemed like it was the motor. Another thing to check is the head clearance in the motor ( RB usually has it set to high) with a high head clearance it will be soft on the bottom but scream on top. I recomend .006 per 10% of nitro content. I usually set mine at about .020 and stock they usually are about .024-.026
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:32 AM   #9
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In my C5, I installed another head shim for a total thickness of 0.035, was running 30% mugen fuel, used a Nova Machined head and temped around 240f deg. Forward traction was not a problem as I used the proper tires as track conditions changed.
My idea of bottom end is to not have the tires light up and roost as I punch the throttle, but instead, to have a proper balance of immediate power transfer from the engine to the ground.
I don't want my clutch to slip much as to not overheat the clutch assy, so I want to run the shoes without cutting them or run softer springs -- I just want to find the best combo (with the help of your opinions or experiences) that would give me that bottom end power I'm looking for
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:52 AM   #10
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I think the reason the MBX5 comes off the line so fast is because it's so light and because of the aluminum shoes. I've upped it a little bit by running 1.1 springs instead of the stock 1.0 springs, but I've heard of people snapping 1.1 springs with alum. shoes in an MBX5. Then again, you're not running an MBX5. Try the 063 pipe, and 1.1 springs...you want the engine to wind up and get on the pipe more before the clutch engages...but I'm sure you knew that.
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Old 09-10-2003, 12:57 AM   #11
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Ok I think I may have you figured out now. It seems to me that you are looking for SMOOTH power not balls out bottom end. Unfortunatly you will not find that two eaisly with a RB motor unless you switch over to a O.S. carb. With .035 head clearance I am surprised that motor can move at all ( lol ) I would sugest that maybe for your next engine you consider a O.S. or a Picco Omega they seem to have the smoothest power bands their throttle curve is very linear were as the RB's are more like light switches unless a O.S. carb is used. I guess with all that you have described your option to try a 63 or maybe even a 53 pipe would be your best choice. The c5 makes crazy horsepower and imo almost to much. You can also play around with the carb venturies but they don't seem to do all that much for smoothing out power transfer.
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Old 09-12-2003, 02:25 AM   #12
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Is there a difference between a P5 with a purple or a blue head?
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Old 09-12-2003, 03:44 PM   #13
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Other than the name, I don't think so. Maybe the problems in them... StepPins, do you read SGrid?
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Old 09-12-2003, 04:59 PM   #14
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Yes their is a difference in the P5's I don't run that motor but I know that one of them has a different case it is bigger and beafier and you chassis needs to be dremeled out for it to fit
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Old 09-12-2003, 09:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedydave
Other than the name, I don't think so. Maybe the problems in them... StepPins, do you read SGrid?
I haven't been on SGRID for a while. could you direct me tho the proper grid for some answers?
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