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Old 09-04-2008, 01:20 AM   #1
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Default I need a better pinion!

So I need to find a good line of 48p pinions. I have the basic Robinson racing even and odd sets but they get messed up SO easily! And a tiny ding in one tooth will not only make your car sound like a rusty chainsaw but really mess up your spur gears as well. As soon as I replace the pinion/spur it's whisper quiet again but it doesn't last long

Does anyone know of a good line of pinions that can withstand a little bit of dirt and sand without getting messed up? I have a B44 and there's just no way of keeping debris out of that area and I'm tired of it being almost as loud as the nitros.

Thanks, guys

-Jeff
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:33 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JeffEmbracedDC View Post
So I need to find a good line of 48p pinions. I have the basic Robinson racing even and odd sets but they get messed up SO easily! And a tiny ding in one tooth will not only make your car sound like a rusty chainsaw but really mess up your spur gears as well. As soon as I replace the pinion/spur it's whisper quiet again but it doesn't last long

Does anyone know of a good line of pinions that can withstand a little bit of dirt and sand without getting messed up? I have a B44 and there's just no way of keeping debris out of that area and I'm tired of it being almost as loud as the nitros.

Thanks, guys

-Jeff
How are you getting sand and dirt in between the gears? I think that problem needs to be resolved since I don't know of any plastic/nylon based spurs that can withstand that kind of an environment.

The Robinsons are all I use. The pinion sets are steel I believe, so it takes ALOT to ding it up, which usually happens under high rpm (motor) when sand and dirt gets in...

You can try some of the AE pinions, they are also steel, but I don't think those can withstand the knd of environment you're suggesting.

Is this happening in a 4wd application?
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:03 AM   #3
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The issue isn't anything unique... it's a very standard b44 setup on a very standard outdoor offroad track. Dust, pieces of dry dirt, and other track materials end up bouncing around inside of the car and eventually find their way in to the gears.

And I'm not talking about huge chunks ripping teeth off of the gears.. I'm talking about little dings that are big enough to make extra noise. I'm basically just looking for a harder pinion than the standard robinson steel ones. Maybe some kind of extra hardened steel? I'm not familiar with all of the manufacturers and lines of gears so any suggestions on a high quality super hard pinion would be great.

I suppose our track is a little rougher than the standard b44 track. It's outdoors, usually really dry with a lot of marbling on top. I normally end up pouring some dry dirt out of my cars after a heat be it my t4, b44, 8ight or anything else. But it's still not too far off of the scale of normal.

-Jeff
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:04 AM   #4
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here's the track, by the way..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_NGdjwChYM

-Jeff
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:12 AM   #5
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I'm actually having that same issue. I took my B44 to the track for the second time, averaging about 6 to 7 runs per visit, and I noticed that my spur was quite chewed up as well...

On my BJ4WE (which is a really good comparison since both vehicles are similar), I never chewed up a single spur gear. This is because that car was setup with a machine-wound (cheapie) 13x2 mod motor.

I noticed that I was going through spurs really quick with a brushless setup. I think this is just normal wear and tear from having such a high torque and braking.

I do notice gunk on my pinions, but I think this is just spur gear chunks left on my pinion. No matter how bad the spur is, I try to pry out the junk between the teeth on pinion with my x-acto between runs. I also try to "cut" any bent sections of the tooth on the spur just to slow the chewing process down a bit.

Not sure if getting a harder or more resilient pinion would do anything. I think they are both having an effect on each other, the pinion chewing up the spur under high torque during acceleration and braking, and the spur leaving chunks which in turn is chewing up the pinion.

Just curious, you didn't slot out your undertray underneath the motor did you? You also didn't slot out the undertray underneath the spur gear did you?
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:23 AM   #6
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Well in my case I can tell it's not just regular wear/tear. You can tell there are dings in the teeth of the pinion and not just the spur. It's pretty clear that the process is this... #1 something gets stuck between the gears for a split second and causes a ding in the pinion an spur, #2 the pinion keeps spinning round and round causing that imperfection to be stamped all over the entire spur gear. The exact same imperfection.

If I can stop #1 from even occurring by having a more resilient pinion it will keep everything running smoother.

The issue persists even with stock and normal modified motors. I do not have this issue in my T4 considering it has a molded gear cover sealing the gears from debris... the issue is really only with the b44 and other similar 4wd buggies I have had (Academy SBV2 has the same exposed deisgn)

-Jeff
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:18 AM   #7
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Hi i found that the genuine losi pinion gears are very cheap and seem to last a lot longer than most but they are heavier as they are steel not alloy
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:14 AM   #8
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I use the Robinson aluminum pinions in my B44, B4 and T4 and surprisingly, I haven't had any unusual spur/pinion wear on the gears in the B44 despite it being an open gear system.

My home track is similar to yours in that there is always some loaminess on top of the hardpack, more so in fact just going by what I see in the video of your track. I would suggest using some strips of Velcro on the outside of your undertray where it meets the body. That will keep a lot of sand, dirt, pebbles and debris out of your car.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:29 AM   #9
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I almost forgot to mention.... I just changed to a new spur/pinion set in the B44 about a week ago and I set the mesh just a hair tighter than I had it with the last set of gears. (The last set of gears with the slightly looser mesh lasted nearly 2 months and never picked up any debris) and just the other day I picked up some debris in the gears, so I pulled the car off, cleaned both gears with a mini wire brush, set the car back on the track and the issue was solved.

I think the velcro on the undertray and body will help a lot, but the wire brush trick will at least be helpful in getting you through a raceday without having to install a new spur/pinion.

Your post made the lightbulb go off in my head, though. I'm going to loosen my spur/pinion mesh just a hair (to the way I had it with the last set of gears) Best of luck with your car.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffEmbracedDC View Post
So I need to find a good line of 48p pinions. I have the basic Robinson racing even and odd sets but they get messed up SO easily! And a tiny ding in one tooth will not only make your car sound like a rusty chainsaw but really mess up your spur gears as well. As soon as I replace the pinion/spur it's whisper quiet again but it doesn't last long

Does anyone know of a good line of pinions that can withstand a little bit of dirt and sand without getting messed up? I have a B44 and there's just no way of keeping debris out of that area and I'm tired of it being almost as loud as the nitros.
How is it that you relate getting dirt or sand into your gearmesh to being a gear problem?
What do you think there are some sort of magic dirt repelling pinions on the market?


here's a tip for you. stop blaming the gears and instead identify where the dirt is coming from
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:12 AM   #11
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I have the exact same problem with my RC18B. Within 5 mins of running in the dirt, usually much less, some small rock piece always gets stuck in between the spur and pinion gears, causing a loud noise and extra wear/tear.

My solution? I don't run the RC18B on dirt anymore. Nor am I getting any more 4wd off-road cars with transmission gears exposed.

Personally, I don't understand how this is an accepted practice to leave gears exposed in off-road vehicles, when it's absolutely impossible to prevent small rocks, dirt and dust from getting inside the body and eventually into the gears. =/
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:14 AM   #12
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Hi i found that the genuine losi pinion gears are very cheap and seem to last a lot longer than most but they are heavier as they are steel not alloy
I also have found that the losi gears are near indestructible.The basic robinson sets(odds and even) are unhardened so all it takes is one peice of debris and bam you have nicks in the teeth.The losi pinions are hard enough where I have picked crushed rocks out of the spur without any damage to the pinion.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:27 AM   #13
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I also have found that the losi gears are near indestructible.The basic robinson sets(odds and even) are unhardened so all it takes is one peice of debris and bam you have nicks in the teeth.The losi pinions are hard enough where I have picked crushed rocks out of the spur without any damage to the pinion.
losi "general use" pinions are cast, which makes them much harder
robinson "racing" pinions are machined, out of relatively soft steel to ease in machining to close race tolerances

either choice doesn't keep dirt from getting into the mesh, nor does it affect dirt eating up your plastic spur gear
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:29 AM   #14
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I stopped running Robinson's gears a while ago and went to PRS gears, I took a couple of Robinson, Losi, and AE gears to them for testing and found the gears not to be as round as the PRS gears causing alot of noise and inconsistancy in the mesh, which in turn wore the gears out. The PRS gears are machined to a tight tolerance and are the quietist, lightweight and durable gears I have used in 18 years. Here's the web site.

www.precisionracingsystems.com
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by shurcooL View Post
Personally, I don't understand how this is an accepted practice to leave gears exposed in off-road vehicles, when it's absolutely impossible to prevent small rocks, dirt and dust from getting inside the body and eventually into the gears. =/
I agree. It seems as if the manufacturers expect that every open-gear offroad car they produce will be run on the same "paved clay" offroad tracks that the top pros race on. They forgot to account for the 99.9% of RC racers, us "regular Joes" so to speak, who run on all sorts of loose dirt, loamy soil, mud, muck, etc.

I was amazed that I was able to get just about 2 months of life out of the first spur and pinion on my B44...
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