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Old 08-12-2008, 02:08 PM   #46
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Tested in-house these packs had more punch compared to the Orion 3200 and Tekin 3400 battery packs.


This is what I was refering too. You don't ever see companies talk about each other in advertising to better themselves.

Tekin has a lot drivers that run other companies proudcts including batteries. We haven't said this pack is bad. The problem lies in the approach. Simple.

I won't entertain a pissing match.

Tekin as wished Damon well in his new endeavor plain and simple.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
This is what I was refering too. You don't ever see companies talk about each other in advertising to better themselves.

Tekin has a lot drivers that run other companies proudcts including batteries. We haven't said this pack is bad. The problem lies in the approach. Simple.

I won't entertain a pissing match.

Tekin as wished Damon well in his new endeavor plain and simple.
Yep, I suppose as another RC company, Im not supposed to compare any of my products to any others (even the facts) and since I ran for Tekin it was unacceptable! Althought I was simply stateing a fact and in no way was I puting their products down!. Tekin products are good and I thank them for wishing me well and I hope them all the best as well!
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Last edited by Diggity; 08-12-2008 at 07:07 PM. Reason: wrong
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:40 AM   #48
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I probably should not have made that general comment. I have no idea where these batteries come from other than which country and we do not ever intentionally smear a competitor. We take it to the track and let our products speak for themselves in terms of performance, durability and overall value.

However it is not a revelation that products that can be produced for $20 in some countries cost $40 in others. I leave it to you to decide why, but I assure you it is not simply increased profits and in many cases the margins are effectively lower. We do consider the big picture when we make personal purchases and decisions for Tekin. Whether or not our batteries are superior, they cost more and I sleep better.

In response the “facts”, we do not think a constant discharge tells the whole story. There is nothing constant in an RC application and we rarely draw 30 or 35amps for any length of time. We draw way more and way less. The truth is that we pulse the motor and it is really a dead short across the battery, on and off, thousands of times per second. How a battery responds to this pulsed load has little to do with how it handles a constant load over the entire capacity. Most rarely even use the entire battery and so the important range is really some percentage of the total. The voltage can also be misleading. Typically very stable and robust chemistries do have a lower voltage under constant loads, but they are able to deliver the deeper power and burst that really matter and also tend to have a much longer lifespan under normal use.

In response to the sponsor issues and expectations we are probably one of the easiest to deal with in the industry. We never require our drivers to do anything that hampers their chances at a podium including using competitors products in series where they are required. We want everyone to fully enjoy their hobby. However we do have certain lines that are not be crossed, especially when you are a fully sponsored driver receiving large amounts of free products. This is fun, but it is also a business in a very competitive market. My rant is over and it is time to move on.

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Old 08-13-2008, 12:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
I probably should not have made that general comment. I have no idea where these batteries come from other than which country and we do not ever intentionally smear a competitor. We take it to the track and let our products speak for themselves in terms of performance, durability and overall value.

However it is not a revelation that products that can be produced for $20 in some countries cost $40 in others. I leave it to you to decide why, but I assure you it is not simply increased profits and in many cases the margins are effectively lower. We do consider the big picture when we make personal purchases and decisions for Tekin. Whether or not our batteries are superior, they cost more and I sleep better.

In response the “facts”, we do not think a constant discharge tells the whole story. There is nothing constant in an RC application and we rarely draw 30 or 35amps for any length of time. We draw way more and way less. The truth is that we pulse the motor and it is really a dead short across the battery, on and off, thousands of times per second. How a battery responds to this pulsed load has little to do with how it handles a constant load over the entire capacity. Most rarely even use the entire battery and so the important range is really some percentage of the total. The voltage can also be misleading. Typically very stable and robust chemistries do have a lower voltage under constant loads, but they are able to deliver the deeper power and burst that really matter and also tend to have a much longer lifespan under normal use.

In response to the sponsor issues and expectations we are probably one of the easiest to deal with in the industry. We never require our drivers to do anything that hampers their chances at a podium including using competitors products in series where they are required. We want everyone to fully enjoy their hobby. However we do have certain lines that are not be crossed, especially when you are a fully sponsored driver receiving large amounts of free products. This is fun, but it is also a business in a very competitive market. My rant is over and it is time to move on.

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Very well put
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
I probably should not have made that general comment. I have no idea where these batteries come from other than which country and we do not ever intentionally smear a competitor. We take it to the track and let our products speak for themselves in terms of performance, durability and overall value.

However it is not a revelation that products that can be produced for $20 in some countries cost $40 in others. I leave it to you to decide why, but I assure you it is not simply increased profits and in many cases the margins are effectively lower. We do consider the big picture when we make personal purchases and decisions for Tekin. Whether or not our batteries are superior, they cost more and I sleep better.

In response the “facts”, we do not think a constant discharge tells the whole story. There is nothing constant in an RC application and we rarely draw 30 or 35amps for any length of time. We draw way more and way less. The truth is that we pulse the motor and it is really a dead short across the battery, on and off, thousands of times per second. How a battery responds to this pulsed load has little to do with how it handles a constant load over the entire capacity. Most rarely even use the entire battery and so the important range is really some percentage of the total. The voltage can also be misleading. Typically very stable and robust chemistries do have a lower voltage under constant loads, but they are able to deliver the deeper power and burst that really matter and also tend to have a much longer lifespan under normal use.

In response to the sponsor issues and expectations we are probably one of the easiest to deal with in the industry. We never require our drivers to do anything that hampers their chances at a podium including using competitors products in series where they are required. We want everyone to fully enjoy their hobby. However we do have certain lines that are not be crossed, especially when you are a fully sponsored driver receiving large amounts of free products. This is fun, but it is also a business in a very competitive market. My rant is over and it is time to move on.

Tekin Prez

Understood, glad we have been able to wash this about. Your products are among the best out there and I would recommend them to anyone. I will still run your stuff and continue to sell them on the website etc... I have edited any undeserved comments that I had made...

Damon
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post

In response the “facts”, we do not think a constant discharge tells the whole story. There is nothing constant in an RC application and we rarely draw 30 or 35amps for any length of time. We draw way more and way less. The truth is that we pulse the motor and it is really a dead short across the battery, on and off, thousands of times per second. How a battery responds to this pulsed load has little to do with how it handles a constant load over the entire capacity. Most rarely even use the entire battery and so the important range is really some percentage of the total. The voltage can also be misleading. Typically very stable and robust chemistries do have a lower voltage under constant loads, but they are able to deliver the deeper power and burst that really matter and also tend to have a much longer lifespan under normal use.


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If the 30 and 35 amp discharge is so misleading, why has it been universally accepted as the measure of NiMh batts?

This is an honest question that I am genuinely curious about.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:51 PM   #52
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I honestly doubt there is a "real" answer to that. The higher amp rating while discharged was supposed to show the capability of the cell to maintain voltage and run time.

The amp rating slowly went up from 25, 30 , and to 35 just as the capacity went up. So back in the day say with 2400's you almost always saw 20-25 amp discharge rates. Soon after I believe it was 3700's you began seeing the 30-35 discharge rates.

Those numbers are easily manipulated unfortunately. You began looking to the company that had the most consistency. Orion, SMC, Trinity,etc. The smaller matchers that did them like EA, Birdman,etc also did well.

Bottom line is that since we're never on full throttle and never pulling a 100 linear load we're not going to get an accurate reading for the purpose. The only good that can come out of it is to compare them under the same load(s) under the same conditions and "hope" that proves everything.

Every racer is different, every car is different, etc.

Lipo packs can show great numbers at first. However under numerous cycles they can begin to degrade. The most degridation occurs when the pack is ran all the way down repeatedly. Run it til you hit voltage cut off and pull it off. Keeping it on there for any longer is simply shortening the life of the pack(this entire statement is a generalization for those you are interested).

Randy
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