B4 vs. XXX
09-12-2003, 04:34 AM
#16
Tech Rookie
I own a B4 and have driven a friend's XXX KE. First off I'll admit that I'm not a "top-of-the-line" racer in our club and have spent more time racing a truck.
IMO, for a fairly new person to buggies, I'd say go with the Losi. It was easier to drive, more forgiving, and jumped better. If you are an experienced buggy driver go with the B4.
Now before someone says its set-up (I'm not discounting that, but my B4 was set-up by one of the shop pros), my buddy who has been racing for sometime and is a top finisher who owns the XXX KE, thought my B4 was awesome and in his opinion drove better, flew better, turned better, and just out-performed his Losi. He was flying around that track at race pace in a matter of laps.
I think the B4 is great car, but I think its a car that works great for an experienced driver. Last night I was at the track and there was another "newbie" (returned to RC) running a B4. This was about the 5th time he's had it out and was quite frustrated how difficult it was to drive well.
IMO, for a fairly new person to buggies, I'd say go with the Losi. It was easier to drive, more forgiving, and jumped better. If you are an experienced buggy driver go with the B4.
Now before someone says its set-up (I'm not discounting that, but my B4 was set-up by one of the shop pros), my buddy who has been racing for sometime and is a top finisher who owns the XXX KE, thought my B4 was awesome and in his opinion drove better, flew better, turned better, and just out-performed his Losi. He was flying around that track at race pace in a matter of laps.
I think the B4 is great car, but I think its a car that works great for an experienced driver. Last night I was at the track and there was another "newbie" (returned to RC) running a B4. This was about the 5th time he's had it out and was quite frustrated how difficult it was to drive well.
09-21-2003, 10:51 AM
#17
Highway man.It's pretty simple.If you read everyone's post with racing knowledge they are really saying the same thing.
The losi is Simply more stable,more consistant and more forgiving and it's doesnt matter HOW THE CAR IS SETUP.I have been off and on for 15 yrs.I have been to many big races placing in the Amain as well as local races.
The B4 is a VERY nice buggy on smoother tracks and the statements about this car NOT working as well on rough tracks is one thing.TRUE.I dont care the setup on the car I tested about 40 different setups with the B4 on rough tracks with Team Input and it just wasnt happening.Smooth tracks its super nice.
The guy who keeps posting how the car did and so on.One thing.The car is ballistic on those types of tracks with EXPERIENCED racers.Plus have you been to a big event in the last year?I wouldnt say the cleanest of racing has been going on.
I give Props to Travis and mark for being Hella Fast no matter what they are driving.I would say right now they have 2 of the fastest drivers out compared to the losi team.
The B4 is an aggressive car thats very fast on smoother tracks.I simply like the losi better personally due to feeling like it's underneith me all the time.It's all about setup.
If you have raced onroad and have the basics down I would say if your track is somewhat smooth and consistant dirt wise that EITHER car will do you fine.I think the losi is a better buy due to $40.00 or so more you get $180.00 or more just in hopups.
Plus if the track is rough,new to offroad I think the losi is just a better drive.
Disclosure:::::This is my opinion but an experienced one.Not one from a magazine that CANT be truly Bias and used STOCK setups which anyone running a XXX with experience KNOWS this car doesnt work well using X-2000's.It pushes unless different fronts or there is a setup change.Plus they geared the cars as the book states and that would be overgearing by losi's standards.
I would focus on what tires work for your track,what the track conditions are like and if you havent been on offroad before take it to heart when 3-5 guys say the losi is more stable and more forgiving.
Goodluck to everyone and goodluck with your decision on cars.
Les
The losi is Simply more stable,more consistant and more forgiving and it's doesnt matter HOW THE CAR IS SETUP.I have been off and on for 15 yrs.I have been to many big races placing in the Amain as well as local races.
The B4 is a VERY nice buggy on smoother tracks and the statements about this car NOT working as well on rough tracks is one thing.TRUE.I dont care the setup on the car I tested about 40 different setups with the B4 on rough tracks with Team Input and it just wasnt happening.Smooth tracks its super nice.
The guy who keeps posting how the car did and so on.One thing.The car is ballistic on those types of tracks with EXPERIENCED racers.Plus have you been to a big event in the last year?I wouldnt say the cleanest of racing has been going on.
I give Props to Travis and mark for being Hella Fast no matter what they are driving.I would say right now they have 2 of the fastest drivers out compared to the losi team.
The B4 is an aggressive car thats very fast on smoother tracks.I simply like the losi better personally due to feeling like it's underneith me all the time.It's all about setup.
If you have raced onroad and have the basics down I would say if your track is somewhat smooth and consistant dirt wise that EITHER car will do you fine.I think the losi is a better buy due to $40.00 or so more you get $180.00 or more just in hopups.
Plus if the track is rough,new to offroad I think the losi is just a better drive.
Disclosure:::::This is my opinion but an experienced one.Not one from a magazine that CANT be truly Bias and used STOCK setups which anyone running a XXX with experience KNOWS this car doesnt work well using X-2000's.It pushes unless different fronts or there is a setup change.Plus they geared the cars as the book states and that would be overgearing by losi's standards.
I would focus on what tires work for your track,what the track conditions are like and if you havent been on offroad before take it to heart when 3-5 guys say the losi is more stable and more forgiving.
Goodluck to everyone and goodluck with your decision on cars.
Les
09-22-2003, 05:29 PM
#18
Thanks Les, ordered the new XXX-KE2 already... 
- jason
- jason
Last edited by highwayman; 09-22-2003 at 05:42 PM.
09-22-2003, 05:46 PM
#20
... my very good friend lends me his XXX-T MF in the meantime.
09-22-2003, 06:20 PM
#21
Sweet.I have been running this truck for a while and the last 3 weeks the T4.I will say the T4 is nice on a SMOOTH track and accelerates nice.Problem Im having is traction coming out of a corner.It doesnt keep rotating but getting on throttle just isnt happening.I have tried about 10 setups as well as some team stuff and it's just not happening.So all this hype about accelerating isnt helping me,but hurting me.I have even went as far as loosening the slipper a lil only to hurt me in the long run.
In mod I DONT like it all compared to the XXXTMFE expecially when behind and trying to play catch up.It just doesnt fill as stable.Kinda edgy which can be fast on the right track and in the right persons hands.I would give it a vote in stock and on a smooth track but not any faster than the XXXT.Rough track or Mod the nod would goto the XXXT still.I guess I like the stability of the XXXT.Goodluck racing and tell us about the new buggy when you get it.
Les
In mod I DONT like it all compared to the XXXTMFE expecially when behind and trying to play catch up.It just doesnt fill as stable.Kinda edgy which can be fast on the right track and in the right persons hands.I would give it a vote in stock and on a smooth track but not any faster than the XXXT.Rough track or Mod the nod would goto the XXXT still.I guess I like the stability of the XXXT.Goodluck racing and tell us about the new buggy when you get it.
Les
09-22-2003, 06:28 PM
#22
thanks for the input... 
... will definitely post my findings as soon as the KE2 arrives...
- jason
... will definitely post my findings as soon as the KE2 arrives...
- jason
10-17-2003, 01:01 AM
#23
Just curious highwayman (Jason), why have you decided to now get a B4?!? 
I thought you had your heart set on the Losi XXX BK2 coming out in November? Sounded like TexRacer and some others had you convinced on it?
Then again, nothing wrong with owning both either!
Hey remember, brand spaking new indoor offroad track in November! Yeah baby! Best of Luck and see you at both Tracks!
I thought you had your heart set on the Losi XXX BK2 coming out in November? Sounded like TexRacer and some others had you convinced on it?
Then again, nothing wrong with owning both either!
Hey remember, brand spaking new indoor offroad track in November! Yeah baby! Best of Luck and see you at both Tracks!
10-17-2003, 01:51 AM
#24
hi ISH, nope, i still have my heart on the new XXX-KE2.
10-18-2003, 07:16 AM
#25
Hi guys,
I current race on an indoor ozite track with a B3, we are looking to start up a buggy class ( 19T motors with 3300 packs ) and for now I have been running with the stadiums.
I get good performance out of my B3, but I am interested in maybe upgrading to a new buggy when it gets more serious. I hear that the B4 works better on smooth tracks. Our track has some good high jumps and allows for a lot of speed, so corning ability is a must.
Of the two, which buggy seems more planted in its corning ability? I run my B3 really low right now which seems to work well on the track, but with the lower CG of the XXX and B4, I want to know how they would perform.
I current race on an indoor ozite track with a B3, we are looking to start up a buggy class ( 19T motors with 3300 packs ) and for now I have been running with the stadiums.
I get good performance out of my B3, but I am interested in maybe upgrading to a new buggy when it gets more serious. I hear that the B4 works better on smooth tracks. Our track has some good high jumps and allows for a lot of speed, so corning ability is a must.
Of the two, which buggy seems more planted in its corning ability? I run my B3 really low right now which seems to work well on the track, but with the lower CG of the XXX and B4, I want to know how they would perform.
10-18-2003, 01:50 PM
#27
2003 IFMAR 2WD OFF-ROAD WORLD CHAMPION BILLY EASTON & HIS TEAM ASSOCIATED RC10 STEALTH B4!!!!!
Just Thought You Would All Want A Quick Update... By The Way, The B4 & Travis Amezcua Win the B-Main As Well! Hey Team Losi, Thanks For The Pics Baby!!! Bravo To Billy & Team Associated!
Just Thought You Would All Want A Quick Update... By The Way, The B4 & Travis Amezcua Win the B-Main As Well! Hey Team Losi, Thanks For The Pics Baby!!! Bravo To Billy & Team Associated!
10-19-2003, 07:28 PM
#28
It all comes down to how you set it up (shock springs, shock oil, which holes are used on the shock tower, etc.). Neil Cragg who won both the 2WD Championship in England and the 2WD European Off Road Championship in Europe (as well as the 4WD in both!) is a perfect example. Team Losi by far had the largest sponsored team in Austria for the European Off Road Championships and so the XXX and XXX Kinwald buggies definitely outnumbered the B4 buggies and yet on a VERY hot, dry, and extremely bumpy track.... Neil managed to win it all!
The B4 buggies can perform just as well on a smooth track as a rough track. It all just comes down to how you set it up. In fact, the great strength of the B4 is just that.... it is very tuneable to different track conditions. Much more adjustable than it's predecessor the B3.
By the way, you can read all about the European Off Road Championships here:
http://www.team-orion.ch/live/results-cars.asp?id=141
I've not had problems running my B4 on rough tracks, as all you do is change the setup if it isn't working. My home track right now is a little rough and I just changed a few things, and TQ'd and won....the car works no matter where you run it. Sometimes you just have to wrench a little bit to get dialed in.
10-19-2003, 08:57 PM
#29
Originally posted by Buff
Couldn't have said it better myself. Stealth tells the story.
I've not had problems running my B4 on rough tracks, as all you do is change the setup if it isn't working. My home track right now is a little rough and I just changed a few things, and TQ'd and won....the car works no matter where you run it. Sometimes you just have to wrench a little bit to get dialed in.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Stealth tells the story.
I've not had problems running my B4 on rough tracks, as all you do is change the setup if it isn't working. My home track right now is a little rough and I just changed a few things, and TQ'd and won....the car works no matter where you run it. Sometimes you just have to wrench a little bit to get dialed in.
... just a question, for a fairly loose track, what set-up changes do you do?
10-19-2003, 09:44 PM
#30
Mercury.....well, that's a pretty general question, as I don't know much of what your track is like, being the dirt, how much grip, how large/small the jumps are, what kind of turns (tight 180's or sweeping turns) etc....you get the idea.
However, I'm assuming you mean a track that may be slick or has low bite. Standing the shocks up more allows the car to bite more coming out of turns and straight line. Laying them in gives the car more side bite going in. Softer springs are usually an easy way for more bite, as well as even softer foam in the tires. Moving your rear hubs forward, or using the trick that some do which is dremeling down the front leading side of the rear arms on the inside where they mount so you can run a shorter wheelbase as this moves more weight back further in the car, which will give you more rear bite. The car may however rotate and pivot a little quicker during cornering. Running less anti-squat may give you more side bite going into turns. You can also run your battery all the way back, or adding 1/4 oz. weights to the rear triangles inside the chassis on each side of the battery to help "plant" the car a little more. A #1 piston can also be used for lighter dampening allowing the car to transfer weight quicker placing more weight on the tires during cornering and accelerating. Running the inside hole on the rear arms also help bite on slick tracks. Allows the car to roll more.
I've even gone as far as to run a Losi high downforce wing, which IMO really helps during high speed cornering and jumping with improved stability. Wow, hope all this helps....I didn't realize this post was ending up so long!
There are obviously more things you can do to get more traction. The car is so tuneable you're bound to find a way to get it to work even in the toughest conditions. I just figured it was time I shut up....
However, I'm assuming you mean a track that may be slick or has low bite. Standing the shocks up more allows the car to bite more coming out of turns and straight line. Laying them in gives the car more side bite going in. Softer springs are usually an easy way for more bite, as well as even softer foam in the tires. Moving your rear hubs forward, or using the trick that some do which is dremeling down the front leading side of the rear arms on the inside where they mount so you can run a shorter wheelbase as this moves more weight back further in the car, which will give you more rear bite. The car may however rotate and pivot a little quicker during cornering. Running less anti-squat may give you more side bite going into turns. You can also run your battery all the way back, or adding 1/4 oz. weights to the rear triangles inside the chassis on each side of the battery to help "plant" the car a little more. A #1 piston can also be used for lighter dampening allowing the car to transfer weight quicker placing more weight on the tires during cornering and accelerating. Running the inside hole on the rear arms also help bite on slick tracks. Allows the car to roll more.
I've even gone as far as to run a Losi high downforce wing, which IMO really helps during high speed cornering and jumping with improved stability. Wow, hope all this helps....I didn't realize this post was ending up so long!
There are obviously more things you can do to get more traction. The car is so tuneable you're bound to find a way to get it to work even in the toughest conditions. I just figured it was time I shut up....
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