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Old 08-13-2008, 11:21 AM   #106
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...and just when I thought we were getting back on topic...
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:23 AM   #107
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...and just when I thought we were getting back on topic...
Sorry.. just had time to read the several email complaints....

hoping the problem goes away when I have a discussion with Patrick at Castle.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:13 PM   #108
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Just for the record I'm a ROAR Region 2 member!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The other thing is why would Castle send in motors that they know won't pass the rules that where written in a way that excludes them? Wouldn't it be a waste of money to send in a product that they know will just get turned down?

If it was your track would you want to chase away any racers especially if they are your locals that support you each and every week only to be excluded because of the brand motor they choose to run? The Castle system is popular because no one else is selling a motor/speedo combo for 130 bucks that can do what the Sidewinder system does. Some racers are on a budget so spending 250 on a system is just not feasable and some don't want to buy used stuff either. The 120 bucks they save on a brushless system gives the average joe moeny for a lipo or two to race with.

The other thing is some are just guys having fun at home but when a big race comes around they decide hey what the heck I will go to have fun but then find out they can't.

I understand rules are rules but for one we are talking mod, an open type of class where guys regularly run stuff mear mortals can't even purchase yet as it is only in test stages that factory guys run. I'm not sure this is much different than allowing the Castle motor.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:38 PM   #109
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Dawn,

You already told us that Castle can send you $$$ and a pile of motors to tear apart. But you know, at this point there's no point in doing that.. they may as well throw a wad of cash out the window.

I think most would agree, there is no logical reason to exclude this type of motor, other that to point to the existing rules and say "see... it doesn't fit". We understand that.

What is being asked for is updating the rules AND "working" with Castle and/or Tekin so that they and ROAR can come to an agreement.

I'm sure they WILL BE HAPPY to send you the fees and motors for testing, once they have something ROAR will accept. I hope that can happen.

BTW, I don't think you are getting flamed or abused here... it's just some racers stating that we would like to see ROAR make room in the rules for a popular motor and company.

also, this has nothing to do with ifmar
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:04 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
...So, lets get this straight... you want a motor legal for this event, that I can't see where its been sanctioned or listed on the ROAR website as a Regional event and preventing any date conflicts...
Am I reading this right? All that would need to be done is to strip four little letters, (R.O.A.R) off of the entry form, and problem solved?!? This makes it sound like it is not a ROAR regional event in the eyes of the organization as it stands now, and if that's the case, what an easy fix! I think it's odd that the first I hear that we actually are having an electric offroad regional this year is when the entry form got posted to the web site. Many in my area have been questioning for MONTHS when and where this race was, and we are JUST now hearing about it? I am not a ROAR member currently, but I still follow the website and try to keep up on all of the rules and events, both regional and national. There hasn't been anything listed for our region for quite some time. I just want to make sure that I am understanding all of this correctly.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:20 PM   #111
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Wow.. just read this thread..

ROAR is for the member and the fairness to the member.... how many complaining here about ROAR are actually members, anyway??

Dawn Sanchez
ROAR President and proud of it!!!!

Dawn,

Thanks for the job you do. I know it is pretty thankless and I know change is slower than all racers want.

Everyone Else,
Sorry you are mad your system does not meet Roar rules. You have several options for this race.

1. Dont Go. (Hope that is not your decision.)
2. Go and get equipment that is Roar leagal. (Atleast you are set for Future.)
3. Go and run what you have. Odds are if you dont win no one will do the
process for teching your vehicle. Heck if they do you still know you beat
beat them. (A roar race must not mean anything if you have non roar
legal system so dont worry if they tech you.)
4. Work to get the exception to run these motors legally.


For the Future -

1. Get involved with Roar and be part of the change process.
2. Talk with your hobby shop and make sure he tells people they are
not currently roar legal systems. If you did not know that dont blame
ROAR. Blame yourself and they guy who sold it to you.
3. Understand that if they allow an exception to every rule just because then
we would never have stable rules.Why dont I build a 10th scale vehicle
with 2mm wider wheel base and some other mods that help. Hey it is
mod right? The rules are there as a guideline to help racing be
reasonable competative and not cost an arm and a leg.

Personally -
All my Novak motors are not roar legal. Hey guess what 13.5 aint stock no more. It must be ROARS fault. NOT. I bought the motors before they were legal. So now I have to change or be left out.

The rules are the rules. So the company you buy your product from can choose to follow them or not. I do not believe that ROAR has any interest in killing a single company. Or a set of racers. If they did then you would see a whole lot more rules that would block out others. Do I think the companies that work with Roar have an advantage. Sure. The Roar people do not seem to think they know everything so they have to work with companies that are building products to help define rules. Notice HELP. If I was roar I would work with any company that was doing the following.

1. Working for what I believe is the benefit of the Hobby.
2. Willing to understand you will not get everything you want.
3. Willing to understand I am not groing to purposly exclude another company just to benefit existing companies.

I am willing to bet most of the people at Roar work for something like this.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:30 PM   #112
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I don't know that anyone is "mad." I think that the majority of racers who buy the Castle system knew good and well when they bought it that it was not ROAR legal, and that they would be in this bind if they ever thought that they wanted to attend a ROAR race. It never hurts to push for a deviation on something like this though, for the good of the race, and the hobby itself. Still...surprising that this is such a hot topic if so many were aware they were not buying legal systems.

Anyone plan to show up for Thursday practice/club race?
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:10 PM   #113
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Part of the problem is people who don't even live in the region coming in here and egging it on.


I was looking forward to this race, since region 9 is worthless for electric racing. But I dunno, you guys sure love your drama. Might just save my money.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:13 PM   #114
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Quote:
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Just for the record I'm a ROAR Region 2 member!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that gives you a dog in this fight.....


HOW?
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:26 PM   #115
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This is getting better than the B-Mag thread.

The issue is clearly at a Stale-mate. Castle sells many systems, most races don't know what ROAR is, or only plan on club racing, then there are the bashers. You can't the beat the deal you get, ROAR approved or not, and the performance is awesome. I really don't think, roar legal will sell them anymore product. I can't speak for for anyone at castle, this is something for Castle and ROAR to work out. I wish it the best.

I've seen NASCAR, the biggest racing organization grandfather some rule exceptions in for the good of NASCAR and the sport. This is another situation where Dawn and ROAR really need to make a decision, stand by your guns or make a change. Being the leader of roar we would all hope the decision made is for the good of ROAR and R/C.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:34 PM   #116
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This is another situation where Dawn and ROAR really need to make a decision, stand by your guns or make a change. Being the leader of roar we would all hope the decision made is for the good of ROAR and R/C.

What decision?

The deviation, if applied for which it wasn't, will be or was denied.

In the best interest of ROAR is to have the motor companies come to a decision how they want the rules to read. They each have access to a private forum on the ROAR site to discuss what they need individually and create a system of rules for the membership.

What is being asked is to present to ROAR what they want. And that was asked over 8 months ago. Waiting.........

But to answer the question as to WHY: Castle Motors are of a slotless design, they are not rebuildable and their rotor dimensions are WAY outside of ROAR specs, which is a HUGE advantage over ROAR approved motors. Castle's been free to manufacture ROAR style motors from day one, BUT - their ESCs cannot run them accurately enough to be acceptable to the racers..... so I'm instructed.

Once the style of motor is allowed, you must understand, there is no way to control the power. Your looking for all of racing to become 100% motor dependent.. much like oval racing.. therefore, your asking for the slow death of RC racing because now costs have gone way overboard.

I think in the best interest of ROAR - we need to ensure costs to the MFG and the membership does not get out of hand... also, some kind of control on power, speed and advantage in order to ensure fairness to all. Sounds a little like NASCAR, eh?

Last edited by Dawn Sanchez; 08-13-2008 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:45 PM   #117
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I have a question.I have been out of R/C for about 6 years so the whole brushless thing is new to me.My question is do the Castle motors have a performance advantage over the ROAR approved systems?I am honestly not trying to stir the pot here,just looking for a little perspective on the situation here.

Edit: I see you edited your post above Dawn,thanks for the info.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:28 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack_Mechanic View Post
I have a question.I have been out of R/C for about 6 years so the whole brushless thing is new to me.My question is do the Castle motors have a performance advantage over the ROAR approved systems?I am honestly not trying to stir the pot here,just looking for a little perspective on the situation here.

Edit: I see you edited your post above Dawn,thanks for the info.
yes, the Castle motors are a slotless design, which are 1) easier for a sensorless controller to drive, 2) provide two to four times the power of a ROAR style motor.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:40 PM   #119
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Dawn, Are you saying that if a deviation is filed it will be denied?
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Last edited by David Alberico; 08-13-2008 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:45 PM   #120
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Baleted, lets delete this thread
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Last edited by David Alberico; 08-13-2008 at 04:53 PM.
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