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Old 07-25-2008, 12:18 AM   #76
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there's an old Levitz store near Magnolia and Orangethorpe that went under. It's right next to the 5/91 freeway overpass in Buena Park/Anaheim border...
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:03 AM   #77
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KyoshoUSA, Associated, Novak, Losi, OFNA, and I know more companies are all located near each other...I'm talking like 15 minutes away from each other!

Southern California is the mecca for RC Cars just as it is for the automotive aftermarket.

They should be able to put together an investment pool to open up a killer RC wonderland...think Disneyland for RC. They should put enough into it to grow the RC marketplace as a whole but not get too crazy that they lose money.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:09 AM   #78
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You could have a dirt track and a carpet track in the same room if you used the type of dirt (well clay rather) that Competition Hobbies in Tucson uses. Plus you have INSANE amounts of traction.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:20 AM   #79
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Arrow Wow guys the track isn't open yet and already getting such good comments and opinions

Hello everyone thanks for your comments and opinions. We looked at some promising property today in Anaheim and orange. Both were very good but the cities might become a problem. Anaheim wants a hearing on the business which could take between 4 to 8 months so that's a heck no. Orange was a little bit more lenient, there is property by the Duck's stadium that is available for lease but the locations weren't very large. Were looking at locations between 12000 to 16000 sqft. This way there will be adequate pit space for the WORLDS RACE we expect to hold in the next couple of years. Cerritos was really good and understanding with open minded people. Tomorrow we will be in Bellflower and Lakewood looking at some large commercial spaces available. My broker is awesome so she contacted Signal Hill about a couple commercial areas that are vacant which should be pretty interesting.

ONROAD - The track will have an indoor onroad carpet track. We will vacuum and maintain the track when needed even if it's every day. My idea was to replace the carpet every 3 to 6 months anyway. If a problem still occurs with dust and debris, we will easily remove the carpet and pour asphalt which should make everybody happier. If that doesn't work I will personally turn the track into more pit spaces and everybody can go race onroad in a parking lot while it's raining. I don't want to seem like a bad person but we haven't even started construction on our track yet. Let's have some trials and errors first before we get our panties in a bunch. I want to make everybody happy but that is really hard. In the beginning stages I know money will be spend on doing thing twice perhaps three times, but letís iron out the bad thing and have a fun place to hang out and race. Were trying to build the best facility we can for all to enjoy and if thing don't work out we will change them.

Offroad - Does anybody know where I should buy dirt or what type of dirt you would like there? I spoke to a guy in Temecula and he said that a mixture of 65% clay and 35% sand and dirt would be sufficient enough for us. Let me know if you have somebody who sells dirt or know of a place. Our track will have eight foot lanes with lots of jumps. We don't want to make the track too challenging but also not to novice either. The drivers stand will be 15 feet tall which should make visibility easier and the marshals wonít be in the way as much. There are other ideas that we are working on that will announced soon.

How wide do you feel our pit table should be? How much room should there be between the pit tables? How long should each pit be? I don't like going to tracks where I feel Iím being pushed around or I don't have enough pit space to work on my car.

After reviewing everybodyís comments I would like to say happily that the first week of practice and racing will be complimentary. This will be our unofficial opening weekend followed by a large two day offroad race three week later. This will be our opening weekend race one month after we opened the doors, with cash prizes for all class and other prizes that we will give away to our racers. (Some Hooters girls might stop by to say hi) Tell me what you think about it, when should we host a large onroad race? When should we start a series race for onroad and offroad? What brand of r/c cars would and parts would you like to see sold at the track from onroad to offroad. What candy, sodas, and chips do you want to see in the vending machines? How about a juke box. What type of music do you want to hear at the track?

Two things that we will not have are nets around the track and reserved pit spots. If someone wants to leave their carpet or things there overnight and will be there the next day we will allow it. There will be cameras there so feel safe with your stuff. I liked the ideas of nets from so cal but only when there were hugs super cross races. The track will be deep enough that cars aren't going to fly over.

People these are just a few things that I threw out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of other things I have in mind. My goal is by 2012 to have 4 to 6 local track open and not by me by other people. I like RB only want to make this hobby a better one and make it grow. People from San Diego shouldn't have to drive 1 hour to race their cars. If the demand is high and our track is doing well heck I will open a second track down south. We first need to create a blue print of this one.

And please no more bickering guys, let's all get together and make both these tracks really special. RB's place is already a well established track and it will remain that way. I will personally go there and race whenever I can which will be a lot due to the fact I enjoy this hobby more and more. I feel we need to help each other and if it takes it I have absolutely NO problem of hanging one of his ads on our website or track.
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:07 AM   #80
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And please no more bickering guys, let's all get together and make both these tracks really special. RB's place is already a well established track and it will remain that way. I will personally go there and race whenever I can which will be a lot due to the fact I enjoy this hobby more and more. I feel we need to help each other and if it takes it I have absolutely NO problem of hanging one of his ads on our website or track.
while it sounds as if you have some grand ideas I'd suggest asking someone experienced like Steve Butts (nc-hopsing) and possibly even hiring him as a consultant to avoid a lot of the money-wasting pitfalls and nightmares that he's seen at other facilities. I would also suggest you actually visit some other tracks and see what works and what doesn't, because while asking people here is nice it hardly gives you the total picture outlook you'll need to be successfull
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #81
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Looks like you have some big plans. Here are a couple of suggestions. The only knock i would have against OCRC( and its not a big one) is the pits are a little tight. As far as the netting goes yuo really need something for safety. One thing that might be really cool is lexan above the retaining walls like they use for the tops of fences on the high dollar houses by the beach. Dont know what that would cost but it sure would look cool
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:03 PM   #82
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"Two things that we will not have are nets around the track and reserved pit spots. If someone wants to leave their carpet or things there overnight and will be there the next day we will allow it. There will be cameras there so feel safe with your stuff. I liked the ideas of nets from so cal but only when there were hugs super cross races. The track will be deep enough that cars aren't going to fly over."


You need to do your research then. The netting is required by insurance and local city laws for safety. Do you research first then post on it, your ideas are very wild and raw now. Put together a comprehensive business plan and then let everyone know what you are doing. Right now its just dreaming.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #83
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Yeah, as a former business owner who (along with a partner) thought we'd "figure it out as we go," I can tell you that I fully agree with oxymoron's suggestion - find someone who has done it, knows what's required for it to be successful, and get their input. Bells and whistles and facility layout are less important to begin with than getting the business aspect of it fully squared away. I know that in the excitement of preparing to do something like this, we tend to ignore peoples' warnings as naysaying and sort of put blinders on ourselves to anything we perceive as negative. There are people in this thread who - of course - would love to see another facility, they just want to make sure it doesn't die within a few months, because the people starting it didn't know what they were doing and didn't have the important stuff squared away, up front. Starting the thread suggesting that you want to put another off-road track 15 miles from an existing new one just doesn't sound like someone who's opened a business that depends on customer traffic. You wouldn't open a coffee shop in the same shopping center as a Starbucks...you'd open a DONUT shop.

Before you put any money into a property, you have to get the fundamentals ironed out. Anywhere you have people congregating at your property, you have insurance requirements. Before you can worry about track layouts, grooming and other things...you have to figure out what kind of overhead the business is going to have. Hobby shop has to carry inventory, staffing...this requires business licenses, accounting for payroll & taxes. It's a business...even if you're only doing it as a "hobby" in addition to a day job, as the OCRC is, and don't expect to profit from it (which is a concept I've never understood...but whatever). Then you've got the crappy behavior of patrons stealing things, defacing things...generally disrespecting the facility and your hard work and adding to your overhead to repair things they broke.

Seems like asking people what kind of candy you should put in the vending machines is putting the cart WAY before the horse. I know it's exciting to have a vision in your head that you want to bring to reality, I've been there MANY times (and am currently there with another project) - but you have to prioritize.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:45 PM   #84
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If you want to talk about longevity, I believe the oldest track in So Cal is Ventura Roadrunners, at the Ventura Fairgrounds. I would suggest setting up a club, and asking a city if you could build a track on their property. Maybe you would need to pony up the construction money, but rent would be FREE. It could be presented as a club, not a business. If you still want a business, open a hobby store nearby. The hobby store would generate revenue from the track, but have no association with it.

Just a thought.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:45 PM   #85
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A concept that hasn't really ever been thought about here in the States, and especially in Cali with its generally great weather, is a multi-use facility. And in multi-use I mean a carpeted indoor facility that can cater to a lot of different classes by the simple implementation and/or removal of jumps and obsticles as is more the norm in Europe where the weather sucks all the time.

Now before anyone blows a gasket hear me out.
The problem as I see it with any permanent, espcially indoor, facility is the rent and/or land costs involved with such an endeavor as well as having enough racers of any particular class or format regularly involved in the programs to support it pay the bills. Everybody always says, "I'll be there" - but the fact of the matter is that one way or another they aren't, and definately not all the time. Which is what you need. Part of the problem is because like with any hobby, be if golf or tennis or whatever, is that people really only have one day (or two days max) each week to pursue it.
And then you have to decide if it's going to be pavement, or dirt, or carpet, or off-road and suddenly no matter which route you choose to go one way or another you've pigeoholed yourself into such a small part of the market that you're missing out on all the rest.

I luv dirt, but I'm man enough to admit that it's a mess. Whether it be the dust that seemingly goes everywhere or the water needed that turns to mud, or need to keep the track groomed, one way or another it's a lot of work. I've been doing a lot of reading on db's in Europe and they do all sorts of off-road racing on carpet or astroturf tracks, in part because of the lack of maintenance involved and also because their weather turns dirt to muck and goo, both indoor and outdoor.

So my suggestion, as I started to say above, is to have a permanently carpeted indoor facility - and that way it doesn't matter if it's raining or snowing or Thursday out - and each day of the week set it aside for a different class of practicing (days) and racing (nights).

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Good call......I've often thought about why someone doesnt step up and do this. Its got to be tough convincing a landloard that you want to build walls inside their building so you can dump a couple of tons of dirt in there to race "toy" cars around. Here is a link to one of many videos of Fastcats in Ontario, Canada. They run on-road and off road there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogGKYh9Oz6c
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Offroad Carpet would be a Blast!! ;-)
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It's fast, it's clean, and routine maintenance is severly cut
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A carpet/astro turf track would be absolutely awesome! I have wanted one for a while and also wondered why no one has built one yet... The jumps and obstacles can simply be made out of wood, and the carpet/astro turf just laid on top of it.

I'd like one between OC and San Diego also. Wherever it is though, I'm looking forward to it.
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Fastcats track is pretty cool. The jumps they made (they have all kinds made up) are remarkable in shape and the traction is CRAZY! They just switch the layout every now and then. They have a great RC facility. Indoor TC, Indoor Offroad (the carpet is much different than the TC Ozite), Outdoor paved TC and a new outdoor off road dirt track. Crazy computer systems, wi-fi, personal lap counter/timer system they designed that logs all your laps and prints them out via a barcode scanner. It's a great place.

www.fastcats.ca
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All plusses in my book. Interesting idea!
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I dont see why it has to be dirt either. It seems almost every big race now is run dry and swept so it might as well be pavement. Carpet will inevitably get torn up but if you change the layout ennough you can spread it out. I dont really see a downside.

Just out of curiosity, did you notice how many people thought that a carpet offroad track would be very cool to have? Even the Kyosho team manager thought so.

Think of how clean the place will always be. No dirt to dig up for a track change, no watering, no racers complaining because the track is too dry or too wet. Jumps can be moved in a matter of minutes. Pull the jumps off the track, lay down some good ozite (or whatever it is those on road guys need ) over the "off road carpet" and voila, on road racing. Your building can be smaller which = less rent. The city and the landlord will be easier to work with since you arent trying to put in all that dirt plus having to bolt in retaining walls to contain it.

If it were my money, I'd be all over opening an indoor carpet facility. To me its a no brainer.

IMO, an off road track that races on different days as OCRC with a totally different style of racing surface, has a lot more appeal than running at basically the same place at a different location on a different day.

OCRC has indoor offroad covered very well. You need something that people are going to go. "man I want to go try that out." And just think, an off road series that challenges people to more than one type of racing surface. Get on the JBRL circuit and even better, we'll go from blue groove, to "loam", to "moon rocks", to clay, to carpet. How cool would that be?

Just something to think about. Take it for what its worth to you and good luck with your project.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:57 PM   #86
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while it sounds as if you have some grand ideas I'd suggest asking someone experienced like Steve Butts (nc-hopsing) and possibly even hiring him as a consultant to avoid a lot of the money-wasting pitfalls and nightmares that he's seen at other facilities. I would also suggest you actually visit some other tracks and see what works and what doesn't, because while asking people here is nice it hardly gives you the total picture outlook you'll need to be successfull

I appreciate the props Oxy, but I am by no means an expert in the matter of operating or building a track. I just know what I like, what I've talked to people in the industry about (a carpet off road track), I've been to plenty of them, and I've owned a business in the past. Besides, I wouldnt have the time, nor would I want the responsiblity of giving my ideas to someone putting out that kind of cash knowing that if it didnt work it was my fault

And while we're speaking of ideas, it seems to me that he has all his ideas worked out already, but he is asking for ideas on here as well and for the most part not considering them. If you know what you want, then just do it. No point coming on here asking for everyones opinion, because it sounds like you already know that you arent going to get all the answers you want to hear.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:04 PM   #87
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I say don't open a shop/track unless you really know what you are getting into. I have seen/ helped pipe dreamers all the way up to the real deal... including managing several off-road programs... there is certainly a lot of risk for the reward.... Certainly another track in the southern california area would be awesome!!!
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:25 PM   #88
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:33 PM   #89
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Just out of curiosity, did you notice how many people thought that a carpet offroad track would be very cool to have? Even the Kyosho team manager thought so.

Think of how clean the place will always be. No dirt to dig up for a track change, no watering, no racers complaining because the track is too dry or too wet. Jumps can be moved in a matter of minutes. Pull the jumps off the track, lay down some good ozite (or whatever it is those on road guys need ) over the "off road carpet" and voila, on road racing. Your building can be smaller which = less rent. The city and the landlord will be easier to work with since you arent trying to put in all that dirt plus having to bolt in retaining walls to contain it.

If it were my money, I'd be all over opening an indoor carpet facility. To me its a no brainer.

IMO, an off road track that races on different days as OCRC with a totally different style of racing surface, has a lot more appeal than running at basically the same place at a different location on a different day.

OCRC has indoor offroad covered very well. You need something that people are going to go. "man I want to go try that out." And just think, an off road series that challenges people to more than one type of racing surface. Get on the JBRL circuit and even better, we'll go from blue groove, to "loam", to "moon rocks", to clay, to carpet. How cool would that be?

Just something to think about. Take it for what its worth to you and good luck with your project.
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:..................And while we're speaking of ideas, it seems to me that he has all his ideas worked out already, but he is asking for ideas on here as well and for the most part not considering them. If you know what you want, then just do it. No point coming on here asking for everyones opinion, because it sounds like you already know that you arent going to get all the answers you want to hear.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:27 PM   #90
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+1 on the indoor off-road carpet track. I like the idea of the carpet for several reasons, track surface conditions should remain the same through out the night, you dont have to worry if they are going to water or not. You should have cleaner driving, less hacking since it should be easier to hold your line due to the high traction of the carpet.
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