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Need help on a Brushless System

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Old 07-14-2008, 11:26 PM
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Questions?? Need help on a Brushless System

Hello all. I'm considering to get a Brushless motor and ESC combo/system for my BJ4WE buggy. I was wondering if any of you out there can help me answer a few questions I have regarding the brushless systems out there:

1) Which Brushless system is the best? Novak? LRP? Castle Creation? Other?

2) Regarding the Novak system, what is the difference between:

a) GTB/Velocity
b) GTB SS Pro
c) XBR Sport

What are the pros and cons of a), b), and c)?

3) What "turn" Brushless should I get for my 4WD 1/10th Buggy (BJ4WE)? If you guys run in the same class, which "turn" motor did you get and why?

4) Are brushless motors interchangeable with one manufacturer to the next? i.e. using Castle Creation brushless motor on a LRP Brushless ESC

5) Any thermal precautions? Are brushless motors "smokable" or do they have thermal shutdown protection built in?


Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:42 AM
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1) Which Brushless system is the best? Novak? LRP? Castle Creation? Other?
novak, some people use the motors and change the esc's to lrp's or sp's
2) Regarding the Novak system, what is the difference between:

a) GTB/Velocity the velocity is 7.5t- 3.5t motors with the gtb, and light series
b) GTB SS Pro gtb with 8.5-21.5 motor
c) XBR Sport i think 8.5-21.5 not pro and with the xbr esc

What are the pros and cons of a), b), and c)? A. fast and the pro level racing motors for the mod classes. B. for the stock, crawler, and super stock classes. C. this is the reversible esc combo which isnt as race friendly.

3) What "turn" Brushless should I get for my 4WD 1/10th Buggy (BJ4WE)? If you guys run in the same class, which "turn" motor did you get and why?
wanna run in the stock class? 17.5 motor. check this out.
Velociti 3.5R This is ideal for customers wanting Novak's fastest brushless motor and for top-level competition touring car applications (#3403/#3000)
Velociti 4.5R Ideal for competition touring cars (#3404/#3001)
Velociti 5.5R Ideal for competition touring cars and high-traction off-road applications
(#3405/#3002)
Velociti 6.5R Ideal for Off-Road and low-traction applications and faster than the Velociti 7.5
(#3406/#3003)
Velociti 7.5R Ideal for Off-Road and low-traction applications
(#3407/#3007)
SS8.5 Pro Brushless Motor is 8.5 turns and is the fastest of the SS Pro-Series motors (#3408)
SS10.5 Pro Brushless Motor is 10.5 turns and approved for ROAR Super Stock Class (#3410)
SS13.5 Pro Stock Brushless Motor is 13.5 turns and approved for ROAR Super Stock Class (#3413)
SS17.5 Pro Brushless Motor is 17.5 turns and is ideal for use in the 17.5-turn brushless class that organizations such as Brushless Racing League* and Southwest Tour* have instituted. Approved for ROAR Stock Class (#3417)
SS21.5 Pro Brushless Motor is 21.5 turns and is the slowest motor in the SS Pro Series. It was specifically designed to offer oval and beginning drivers an even slower option, which makes it ideal for extended run times (#3421).When using a 2S Li-Po pack, the SS21.5 Pro brushless motor can match the speed of the Novak SS10.5 Pro (#3410) brushless motor on a 4-cell Ni-MH pack.
4) Are brushless motors interchangeable with one manufacturer to the next? i.e. using Castle Creation brushless motor on a LRP Brushless ESC
yes, you can run a novak sensored motor an a mamba unsensored esc, just pull out the sensor cable.
5) Any thermal precautions? Are brushless motors "smokable" or do they have thermal shutdown protection built in?
i think they do but ive seen one in smoke.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:53 AM
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It's always been my experience to always spend the most money you can on an item, especially electronics, so that you don't end up having to spend more money later when you think you might want to start competing or find the need to have competition worthy equipment because the lesser cost stuff let you down.

1) Asking what's "the best" is like asking what your favorite ice cream flavor, or if they have a rear-end ~~ everybody's got one. Making that decision is up to you. Honestly, there are dozens if not hundreds of threads (including some current ones) asking the same thing.

2) All the comparative differences are discussed very thoroughly on the Novak website. But, bottom line, the more costly ones cost more for a reason ~ and it ain't because they're purty.

3) If you have to ask what turn to get, maybe you need to consider starting off in stock class and running stock motors. As the old expression goes: If you have to ask, then whatever you get (or get recommended) is going to be too much for you to handle.

4) yes and no.

5) Anything is smokeable, especially if you don't maintain it and/or abuse it.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:35 AM
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I use the XBR with 13.5 in two different classes at my local carpet oval track. I have had no issues using the XBR in competition. I use a profile with no reverse. In one class I use the 13.5 SS (full competition with sintered rotor) and the other a 13.5 EX (no sintered rotor) but it works fine. I rand the XBR and 13.5 EX in offroad this year and it worked fine on the dirt in mod buggy.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:55 AM
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I would recommend the LRP Sphere Comp (or even the TC if you are paranoid of heat or live in a really hot climate) with a sintered rotor 6.5 brushless motor (Orion, Novak etc).
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:51 PM
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I appreciate all the replies... especially from you, not home, that was a very thorough answers to my questions.

I believe I'm going to go for the gtb/velocity 6.5R combo...

BTW, I read that brushless have a higher efficiency, but I can imagine the motor still heating up. How do you guys manage the heat issue with the motor especially if you pair it up with high capacity batteries (longer run-time)? Do you simply just gear it down, more for torque and to keep it cooler? I read that brushless doesn't require a "forced air" cooling system and that the heat can be conducted out of the can primarily.

What is the equivalent brushed motor compared to the 6.5R? 9-turn? 10-turn?
Are there a recommended gear ratio chart vs. the application (off-road, on-road, etc.) posted somewhere?
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:56 PM
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This is Novak's Gear chart by application from their Tech Info section on their website.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:04 PM
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I wouldn't under gear it.

I have run full on 10 minute mains and a good 15 minute practice session with no thermalling (I am running the Sphere Comp with the heat sink and an Orion 6.5 motor geared 21/78 in my Lazer ZX5-SP).
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:25 PM
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How experienced of a driver are you? A 6.5 is a LOT of motor! You're going to have to run in the "mod" class with that motor, meaning racing with guys who are experts and pro's or semi-pro's. Are you that good?
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:31 PM
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Go sphere or GTB, I run a sphere comp and a orion 7.5 in my 4wd, sphere comp and 10.5 or 7.5 in my b4 and a sphere comp and a novak 7.5 in my T4.

There isn't anything much better then a a sphere and IMHO it's a one of the smoothest ones you can get.

You always get what you pay for.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:29 PM
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I have a GTB 13.5, GTB 6.5, XBR 8.5, and a Castle Sidewinder 4600 esc/motors.

The Sphere, GTB and Castle systems you are considering are all top notch, but for a 4wd buggy, I would seriously consider the Mamba Max 5700. The main reason is that theres not much space inside a 4wd chasis to mount stuff and theres even less ventilation. The Mamba Max has no fans to break, no sensor wire, no capacitor to mount and its extremely resistant to thermalling. And with the computer programming, you will get the feel your looking for.

If you are on a budget get the Sidewinder + Castle Link (to program it with). It has much better performance than the XBR - I know I have them both.

I've run the $250 GTB 6.5 back to back against my $140 Sidewinder 4600 in my buggy and my laps and times stayed the same.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:35 PM
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I have run both the Castle Mamba Max/5700 combo and an LRP/Orion 5.5 in my BJ4. Both are very competitive and in fact I think the Mamba system had the edge at the track I was running on. If you are going to be racing competitively, check the legality of the motors, at the time I tested, the Mamba motor wasn't legal as it was sensorless.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:57 PM
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Sphere Comp '07 all the way. I have a Sphere and a Speed Passion GT 1.1, and the Sphere is hands down way better quality than the SP. As far as Novak, do you really want that fugly orange and purple mess in your car? Plus, Novak is in the process of updating their product line, and all their new stuff is smoke colored plastic with black.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:29 PM
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Thanks for all the help guys (and gals maybe?)!

jla: to answer your original question, I'm quite experienced with RC cars, been fidgeting with them since 1990, my first car was a RC10CE Graphite. As for my driving skills, I used to be good... Used to be able to place at least 2nd place in mod classes as a child, but when I got back into it as an adult, I totally suck! There's not a visit to the track that I don't end up breaking stuff... I"m definitely going to consider a milder motor.

Thanks for your insight Ed, I'm definitely going to consider the Mamba.

As for the orange color, I actually LOVE Novak's color scheme. I'm so used to it (my first real ESC was a 410-M5) and it stands out of the chassis...

But I guess I'll hold out on the Novaks, I'm going to pay more attention to CC's stuff. They have a nice USB (FTDI) port on them to interface with the PC. This is a nice feature...
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:59 PM
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Based on my last few months of intensively reading forums, I would also recommend a Mamba Max 5700 system. I can't tell you much from practice, as I don't have anything yet, but I have in fact ordered MM/5700 a few days ago for my Associated B4 (also coming... >_< ).

When I had just started out, I liked Novak's stuff better based on their website layout and the the things they wrote there. But after reading lots of comments from people on both systems, I've started to prefer CC's stuff better.

You can take a look at this chart and see if the 5700kV system is what you want. IMO it's the most balanced one and should work great on buggies with 2s LiPos. The only reason to go for faster ones is if you're into bashing/speed runs. In any case, with a 3s Lipo, 5700 is the fastest one - hence the flexibility.

http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...ring_chart.pdf

Good luck!
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