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Old 07-07-2008, 05:38 PM   #16
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boy i would think that looking to 4wd to die out again is kinda not the way a company is supposed to help keep a hobby kickin. Long ago everyone got excited cuz 4wd was fun and it got big! then the expense and upkeep of brushed motors made it not fun and a ton of work, so it died. With the brushless movement im sure its got a way better chance to stay and continue to grow. in northern cali its now one of the strongest classess and no one runs nimh they all run trakpower or maxamps lipo packs. Support our little hobby not wait for it to die just a thought
In other parts of the world, people run nimh more than Lipo. And also 4WD buggy is one of the smallest classes world wide. You have to consider team orion is preasent world wide not just in Northern California. A saddle pack would only be used in a 4WD buggy. there havn't been any other cars in years that use this type of battery. When orion introduces a new lipo pack, it fits almost every car on the market. If we were to make a saddle pack lipo, we would sell 1 saddle pack for every 100 regular packs. And to invest the same amount of money to develope a battery that would sell that little just isn't worth it.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:39 PM   #17
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boy i would think that looking to 4wd to die out again is kinda not the way a company is supposed to help keep a hobby kickin. Long ago everyone got excited cuz 4wd was fun and it got big! then the expense and upkeep of brushed motors made it not fun and a ton of work, so it died. With the brushless movement im sure its got a way better chance to stay and continue to grow. in northern cali its now one of the strongest classess and no one runs nimh they all run trakpower or maxamps lipo packs. Support our little hobby not wait for it to die just a thought
In other parts of the world, people run nimh more than Lipo. And also 4WD buggy is one of the smallest classes world wide. You have to consider team orion is preasent world wide not just in Northern California. A saddle pack would only be used in a 4WD buggy. there havn't been any other cars in years that use this type of battery. When orion introduces a new lipo pack, it fits almost every car on the market. If we were to make a saddle pack lipo, we would sell 1 saddle pack for every 100 regular packs. And to invest the same amount of money to develope a battery that would sell that little just isn't worth it.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:48 PM   #18
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There are a few reasons why Team Orion hasn't made a saddlepack Lipo yet.

Reason one: Due to the lack of space in all of these new 4WD buggies, If we were to create a saddle pack it would have a very low capacity (relatively speaking). We would probably have a hard time getting the battery pack up to 3000 mah. Since 4WD buggy is only an open modified class, the average consumer would not feel comfortable having such a low capacity battery. Every Lipo battery that we sell is produced by Kokam. If you had 2 different cells of the same capacity from 2 different manufactures, the Kokam cell would be a little larger in size. This is due to all of the safety features that are built into the cells. Kokam cells are undoubtably the safest cells on the market. Neither Kolyma or Team Orion will downgrade the quality of the cell to decrease the physical size. We take pride in delivering the best cell possible

Reason one is defiantly wrong, I have Trakpower 4800mah lipo saddle packs for my B44 ,Also MaxAmps makes multiple lipo saddle packs up to 6000mah.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. devenwhite View Post
In other parts of the world, people run nimh more than Lipo. And also 4WD buggy is one of the smallest classes world wide. You have to consider team orion is preasent world wide not just in Northern California. A saddle pack would only be used in a 4WD buggy. there havn't been any other cars in years that use this type of battery. When orion introduces a new lipo pack, it fits almost every car on the market. If we were to make a saddle pack lipo, we would sell 1 saddle pack for every 100 regular packs. And to invest the same amount of money to develope a battery that would sell that little just isn't worth it.
The tooling for plastics is pocket change, just tool it up and get it out there in the market, right now it's prime time. There is only one other company producing a hard cased lipo as of now that's on the market. Heck, the tooling cost for the Ultrasonic welder is typically rolled into each of the packs anyway, or atleast the first run.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:22 PM   #20
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I dont think i would say the Track Power fits in a 4 wheel. To make it fit correctly you need to buy aftermarket stuff otherwise it hts the center shaft. That and it is quite a bit taller than what was posted by Roar to be legal. I have never been able to get a good aswer why they were approved.I am a proud supporter of Orion and i am ure if it was easy to do thye would have had them out by now. They have always led the pack in Lipo(pun intended) why stop now.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:26 PM   #21
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4WD buggies kept the saddle pack chassis design because the batteries kept getting heavier and heavier (more massive) and it was important to keep all this mass near the centre of the chassis (front to rear as well as side to side).

When you go from a 460 gram battery to a 260 gram one, there's no saying that the saddle pack chassis design is still the best idea.

So the danger would be for a battery manufacturer to come up with a saddle pack lipo and then buggy manufacturers to come up with better chassis designs that run the old Lipo bricks. I'm no car designer, but I'm saying there's that possibility.

At club level, Tamiya already has a formidable stick/inline/brick 4wd buggy (the DB-01) and from the pictures I've seen Hotbodies will follow soon (with a retro-looking sideways layout). Even if Lipo is allowed for 2009 Worlds and even if a B44 wins with a lipo saddle pack (and that's two ifs), you will still see more bricks being sold because of 2wd design and more importantly, touring car design. And who knows, a lot of people at that time might think "I'm going to focus on two classes instead of 3, and I've already got the battery for 2 classes..." and then you know what will happen to 4wd buggy again.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:14 PM   #22
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i think what Mr. devenwhite is saying is that the kokam cells (inside the plastic case) are physically larger than the cells that trackpower, checkpoint, and maxamps use and would not fit in a saddle pack configuration. sure they could make a hard case that would fit a 4x4 chassis, but they wouldn't be able to fit their cells into it.

and tooling for plastic molds is NOT cheap.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:53 PM   #23
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I agree.

And I disagree...

I say with the way 4wd is today that it is gonna be around for a long time to come, me as an Ex-Mold operator that molds are very expensive,but at the same time i'm saying this again 4WD is going to stay around a long time.their are some very good cars out their today and i think it is getting very popualr again.I personally run a MaxAmps 4000 pack and hang with guys running MaxAmps 6000's,TracPower 4800,i just don't see a reason not to wait for orion to make these packs,their are packs out their right now to keep us 4wd guys going!

Rock On TeamOrion! Send me one to try when you get a batch done! Lol...
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:15 AM   #24
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Dont forget REEDY has a new saddle pack comming out too. There are plenty of good choices now for your lipo needs. While it would be nice if Orion would grace us with a saddle pack, I cannot wait around for "maybe", and "we'll see" battery packs. I feel if you can properly secure a soft sided lipo in your 4wd buggy, meet the weight minimum, they should be allowed, Most tracks already allow them. I guess when it comes to sanctioned races Trakpower will be getting all the glory, and pics in the mags. Someone will be making money off of saddles, just not orion.
All of us 4wd touring car racers leaving onroad due to high costs are jumping on 4wd off road, and we'll see soon just how big 4wd buggy will become. It would be really nice to see orion there in the beginning to grow the 4wd segment.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:39 PM   #25
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Who cares if/when they make a saddle pack. MaxAmps is around and has managed to make packs for every 4wd out there including the 501x which is about the tightest space config I've seen.

6000's available now

If you need ROAR approved stuff, then TrakPower has a 4800 that will fit in quite a few buggys without modification. It won't fit in some though.

http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/lipobattery.php

Good Luck

4wd isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The cars are SO much better now, brushless, lipo, it's EASY to run 4wd and its a ton of fun.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:23 PM   #26
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Can someone please tell a mod to ban that freakin lovefcs? I'm getting so sick of seeing that corny WOW crap all over rctech!
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #27
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reedy is making a saddle pack heck thats cool im just gonna buy one of those it kinda makes sence being reedy is tied with associated and well b44. just need a good saddle for my coming kyosho fs kit.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:21 PM   #28
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I think there are reasons to do something like a saddle pack lipo beyond getting a return on the item as a stand alone product. Primarily maintaining a leadership role in the lipo market and the brand loyalty that comes along with it.

Orion has developed some brand loyalty by being the first and argueably the best in many categories such as safety...or at least that's the mantra tha tmahy repeat. Right now, if I had a saddle pack car I'd be forced to try another brand (because there isn't an Orion option), and I may just find out that the trackpower works just as well, for instance. therefore, my next stick pack purchase may be Trackpower instead of Orion and so on.

So I think the "4wd is a small class" arguement is weak. If Orion waits until 4wd gets bigger (and I think it will) they may have already missed the boat. IMO, they could be in danger of losing some of their loyal customer base that they built by being pioneers in the lipo race.

I understand there are other technical issues...but I'm sure there are some bright engineers out there that could overcome those.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tcmerf View Post
I dont think i would say the Track Power fits in a 4 wheel. To make it fit correctly you need to buy aftermarket stuff otherwise it hts the center shaft. That and it is quite a bit taller than what was posted by Roar to be legal. I have never been able to get a good aswer why they were approved.I am a proud supporter of Orion and i am ure if it was easy to do thye would have had them out by now. They have always led the pack in Lipo(pun intended) why stop now.
Thats not entirely true either, While I did buy the Diggity lipo brace for my B44 I know 3 guys that made their own tray out of lexan. Granted it's not drop in like nicads/nimh but it's real close.
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Last edited by X God; 07-08-2008 at 05:48 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. devenwhite View Post
There are a few reasons why Team Orion hasn't made a saddlepack Lipo yet.



Reason three: Due to Team Orion's complete reconstruction of the entire product line, the saddle pack idea has unfortunately been put on the back burner. But that doesn't mean that we haven't tried a battery like this or dislike the concept. With the new Kyosho saddle pack car arriving at the end of the year, it gives us extra motivation to come out with a saddle pack lipo. If we were going to put it into production it would probably be in the hobby shops around the same time as the new Kyosho car.


You must know that 90% of the 4wd's, use a saddle pack configuration. If it takes 1 more Buggy to make up Team Orions mind, cool, but that is a very weak excuse not to produce lipo sadlle packs or wait any longer to go into production. How about jumping in and continue to produce top of the line products for the RC world.

Lead, dont follow.

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