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Old 04-19-2008, 09:53 AM   #1
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Default Why Losi is making me an Associated Fan

In the mid-90's, in college, i owned a Pro-SE, XX, XX-T. I was a pretty typical Losi fanboy spewing anti-associated rhetoric every chance i got. All of the tracks within reasonable distance in my area closed up so I went to Traxxas & HPI backyard toys of various persuasions until two months ago when I realized racing was back up in the Mobile/Pensacola Area.

For christmas, my wife bought be an RC18b, I put a mamba and DSM reciever in it and have completely abused that little toy and been surprised in how well it has held up.

I pounded my bank account ordering a ton of Losi gear to meet the new tracks with. XXX-T cr, Novak GTB 10.5 brushless, Team Orion Lipo, more DSM gear, couple hundred dollars in extra parts. Losi's e-flite rebranded lipo charger..

I've built 10 or more rc vehicles, while I'm no pro I'm not completely stupid either. The kit was missing numerous parts, the diff balls, diff oil. E-mailed and called Losi -- got no replies to either. I bought the missing parts, (and never heard from losi) -- got the truck built, broke in the diff, took it in the driveway for a few passes and the diff broke. So, assuming I was just a crackhead and did something, ordered a new diff gear,rebuilt the diff.

On the first trip to the track, the losi charger died and puffed up a little stream of smoke. After a ridiculous troubleshooting session, i shipped back to horizon the charger, which they still haven't sent back to me after 1 month. 2nd trip to the track, the balljoints in the hub carriers broke on a very light overturn (not even an impact!) -- this has happened twice because the instructions tell you to put in three spacers, leaving very little thread coverage in the hub itself.

I have to say, my impression thus far hasn't been a positive one with Losi not supporting their products, with stupid setup instructions (hey, look, if you want the height of the ball joint to be higher, make the damned threads longer) and the overall lack of durability in that in two races, with hardly any crashes, I've broken a pivot plate, diff gear, two hub ball joints, (into $50 aluminum hubs!), a dogbone, killed a charger because it apparently can't charge at 4.8 amps without trying to die, numerous other little piddly parts...

Not to mention the stock setup sheet on their site is completely inappropriate for outdoor tracks and they offer no additional setup suggestions, yet you look at associated's site and they have a wealth of setups available.

Meanwhile i look at my little rc18 toy, with it's inappropriate/overhot gearing and the fact it's taken a number of 60 mph faceplants off of sick jumps and I've bought one part for it.

As I find myself with the bug to buy an 8th scale racer next, given my experience with Losi this go around, why would I buy the 8ight over the rc8? I've read the rc8's reliability issues but at least AE released a service pack to try to address the issues the real world showed in their buggy. In my experience, It would be a cold day in hell before Losi would go to that effort.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but wanted to share my Losi experiences so far. I didn't realize losi had turned into tamiya.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:04 AM   #2
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Losi turned into Tamiya? What the hell does that mean?

If anything, they turned into Traxxas. Horizon is cutting corners trying to make more money while ruining the Losi name. I am now not a fan of Losi. But I don't think I'll call myself an AE fanboy, ever.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:24 AM   #3
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Losi turned into Tamiya? What the hell does that mean?

If anything, they turned into Traxxas. Horizon is cutting corners trying to make more money while ruining the Losi name. I am now not a fan of Losi. But I don't think I'll call myself an AE fanboy, ever.
My first rc vehicle was a Tamiya Lunchbox. First and last tamiya I ever owned so admittedly I don't have a ton of experience in that area but the experience stuck with me.. Instructions in some other language, I built the kit by picture only and from the durability stand point, I seem to recall that if the wind blew hard a part would break on that thing.

I had a Jato 3.3 and 4-Tec 3.3 from Traxxas and while they weren't very durable I had many hours of fun out of them, as toys, between breaks. I don't think this losi is any more durable, really -- which surprised me, I expected it would be. Wrenching on them was a complete pain in the arse but at least traxxas replies to their emails, eventually. I mean, I won't be going to a track with a traxxas but my impression is that Losi's stacked all their labor towards retail sales to bashers and have left one guy in charge of the racing side of things.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:24 AM   #4
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Oh geez, can we make a section of this forum so people can complain about Losi instead of clogging up this section?
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:45 AM   #5
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There are I am sure setups for the XXXTCR for outdoors as well on the site. You just need to look more closely. As for the ballstuds are you sure you used the right ones? If it required that many washers I am sure they should have supplied longer ones you probably used somewhere else. The rear T plate sounds like you had a pretty hard rear end landing. I really don't understand how you broke a diff gear. I have never done that one myself. I would assume it was not put together properly. I agree things are not good at Losi but some of the issues you describe sound like operator error. As for the charger, you get what you pay for. There are issues with AE too if you talk to the right people. With everything coming from China or what ever asian country, you are going to have to expect this type of quality. Horizon pretty much is degrading the Losi name, hence why the Losi family got out. It is all about the bashers and quick money.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:51 AM   #6
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Sounds like someone should of read the 820 reply thread about this truck and found the good and bad points and fixed them before running it, if you havent read it do so lots of good info on makeing it better.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:55 AM   #7
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Ive ran all losi stuff for around 3 years and i never had much trouble from any of my losi products . That sucks to hear
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:09 AM   #8
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Default Operator Erro

Yeah, I mean I allow for a good deal of err on my own part attributed to making mistakes but wrong ballstuds? Nope.

Diff was assembled right. Maybe I tightened it too much but it was surely assembled correctly.

Yes, my cog was too much to the rear and I bottomed coming off a double (two laps) --- it wasn't loud enough to hear at the driver's stand but I noticed it bottoming out, pulled it off the track and saw the problem at that point, it was already cracked.

Thanks for the tip on the thread, no I haven't seen that thread or any other helpful information on the web about the xxx-tcr. One of the review sites I frequent had a dead link on their setup sheets and losi's site? Nope. just one. Plenty for the mf2, though -- which I may try to apply to my setup cautiously, accounting for the length differences.

I guess, I won't rule out crackheaded mistakes on my part but I didn't think I was buying a piece of glass to race, either. I've heard plenty of stuff about the ft T4 on the durability side, I guess no kit's going to be perfect.

On the Losi Charger, it's a $120.00 charger what does you get what you pay for mean? I have a $70 triton jr. that kicks its' ass for nearly half the price.
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:15 AM   #9
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Default Not Dialed In

I do realize (some of ) my frustrations are just from not being dialed in yet. I'm not going to be selling the xxx-t cr, I'll do whatever I have to in order to get it where I need it but I'm just way disappointed in the difference in today's Losi (company) vs what I had dealt with in the past..
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:54 AM   #10
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well the diff is your fault most likely, you have to break them in correctly and set them, then you wont have any problems.

For the ball studs, you can't put a very long thread threw the rear blocks otherwise when you do it will hit the cvds below. the stock ball studs are not very good in the first place so go buy some lunsford ones.

I had the car for a long time and had no big issues with it at all. if it breaks go fix it, just a little toy car. its what they do.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:12 PM   #11
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Just read the XXXT-CR thread and you will learn alot about the truck as far as setup what springs people are running and so forth, i have only had mine for 3 weeks but it has been at the track now twice with no problems just change a few parts and its a great truck.
Good Luck Erik
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:30 PM   #12
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Glad I posted the bitchy thread, I got some real constructive advice here, thank you!
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #13
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I was a Losi fan growing up, same as you. Then I got pissed at the whole horizon thing..... and started running AE. The shocks and slop-developing plastic made that switch short lived. So back to Losi I'm going...

....I also learned a lot about how to run a *successful* business.... and Losi/Horizon is doing such (the RTR market is HUGE, so why not try and make money there... if not, they dont have much to dump into the race side of things) Say what you will.. but I'll probably run Losi until the company is run into the ground..............more.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:37 PM   #14
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Yeah, from an engineering standpoint, I'm sure some of the same brains are still there or at very least much of the fundamental research. The spacer thing ticks me off because the hubs are deep enough (despite the post on this thread to the contrary) to hold a deeper thread connection but the manual has you space it three spacers high. So I break two of them in two runs and was pretty torqued about it.
Then one of the brainiacs at the track helping me to tune my truck had an interesting observation. "Well, perhaps the setup included is for the types of drivers that have seldom/if ever rolled the vehicle like you have"
Aside from that being a passive agressive stab at my driving skills, I do see a good point in that the guys that probably created that setup are way better drivers than I'll ever be and are on completely different terrain.

Still, I hate that in my searches, even on this forum -- I haven't even seen the famed XXX-T cr thread, just one of the buggy. I'd love to get some feedback for southeast, loamy clay + humid/moist outdoor driving conditions on a rough 1/8th scale designed track.

I'm sure horizon is seeing dollar signs in the rtr market but they have to be careful to not sacrifice support.. I have no problem with them trying to cash out, at least when traxxas did it their support rose to meet the higher needs of all those backyard bashers turned racer wannabes like me.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anomaly View Post
Yeah, from an engineering standpoint, I'm sure some of the same brains are still there or at very least much of the fundamental research. The spacer thing ticks me off because the hubs are deep enough (despite the post on this thread to the contrary) to hold a deeper thread connection but the manual has you space it three spacers high. So I break two of them in two runs and was pretty torqued about it.
Then one of the brainiacs at the track helping me to tune my truck had an interesting observation. "Well, perhaps the setup included is for the types of drivers that have seldom/if ever rolled the vehicle like you have"
Aside from that being a passive agressive stab at my driving skills, I do see a good point in that the guys that probably created that setup are way better drivers than I'll ever be and are on completely different terrain.

Still, I hate that in my searches, even on this forum -- I haven't even seen the famed XXX-T cr thread, just one of the buggy. I'd love to get some feedback for southeast, loamy clay + humid/moist outdoor driving conditions on a rough 1/8th scale designed track.

I'm sure horizon is seeing dollar signs in the rtr market but they have to be careful to not sacrifice support.. I have no problem with them trying to cash out, at least when traxxas did it their support rose to meet the higher needs of all those backyard bashers turned racer wannabes like me.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180630
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