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Old 04-15-2008, 04:35 PM   #1
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Default What Will a Factory Electric 1/8th Look Like?

I had a blast converting my RC8 to brushless. Half the fun was putting it together and the other half is destroying the nitros. Seriously, I find the development of this class of cars quite interesting from a business standpoint, but I am even more curious as to how factory built 1/8ths are going to look once the manufacturers get around to making them in mass.

Large Scale 1/10? I was attracted to the 1/8 buggies because they are so much tougher than the 1/10 scales. Do you think mfg's are going to just increase the size of say a B44 or even that new Schumacher buggy? I found the Castor racing buggy interesting on the other thread, but I thought a slightly larger Cat would be kind of cook with the belt drive.

Battery Standard? It seems higher voltage lower KV is the way to go, but do you thikn mfg are goign to force 4s as the standard? Dual packs vs single pack?

Competitive Racing? What is going to be the standard... five minute qualifiers with 10 minute mains? I really hope the class doesn't get bogged down with rules that are over technical.... I say run what you brung.

Discuss... what does the future look like?
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edumakated View Post
I had a blast converting my RC8 to brushless. Half the fun was putting it together and the other half is destroying the nitros. Seriously, I find the development of this class of cars quite interesting from a business standpoint, but I am even more curious as to how factory built 1/8ths are going to look once the manufacturers get around to making them in mass.

Large Scale 1/10? I was attracted to the 1/8 buggies because they are so much tougher than the 1/10 scales. Do you think mfg's are going to just increase the size of say a B44 or even that new Schumacher buggy? I found the Castor racing buggy interesting on the other thread, but I thought a slightly larger Cat would be kind of cook with the belt drive.

Battery Standard? It seems higher voltage lower KV is the way to go, but do you thikn mfg are goign to force 4s as the standard? Dual packs vs single pack?

Competitive Racing? What is going to be the standard... five minute qualifiers with 10 minute mains? I really hope the class doesn't get bogged down with rules that are over technical.... I say run what you brung.

Discuss... what does the future look like?
I think they will remain generally the same while things like mounting locations and chassis cutouts (flywheel, etc) will be altered appropriately.
I would vote single pack over dual pack.
8th scale stock class!
It's probably going to be a motor limit and battery limit. Other rules similar to current mod classes.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Edumakated View Post
I had a blast converting my RC8 to brushless. Half the fun was putting it together and the other half is destroying the nitros. Seriously, I find the development of this class of cars quite interesting from a business standpoint, but I am even more curious as to how factory built 1/8ths are going to look once the manufacturers get around to making them in mass.

Large Scale 1/10? I was attracted to the 1/8 buggies because they are so much tougher than the 1/10 scales. Do you think mfg's are going to just increase the size of say a B44 or even that new Schumacher buggy? I found the Castor racing buggy interesting on the other thread, but I thought a slightly larger Cat would be kind of cook with the belt drive.

Battery Standard? It seems higher voltage lower KV is the way to go, but do you thikn mfg are goign to force 4s as the standard? Dual packs vs single pack?

Competitive Racing? What is going to be the standard... five minute qualifiers with 10 minute mains? I really hope the class doesn't get bogged down with rules that are over technical.... I say run what you brung.

Discuss... what does the future look like?
I'm itching to post some pictures of my designs, but with tons of copy cats out there, I'll wait until Mike at RC-Monster does them. One will be for speed only and I will ue it to test most of my stuff. The other will be more of a race machine. I don't like how the current set up are. I will wait until I get an answer from Mike and post pictures later.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:27 PM   #4
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Pretty much two schools of thought, dual pack or single pack setup.

For a dual pack setup, depending on what motor size is used you could have a decent balance, assuming the batteries cancel each other out, and the motor weighs about the same as the electronics on the other side.

I am liking the convenience of the single pack setup right now. But, I think it will be harder to get a true 4S hardcased lipo pack out there than say, just taking two hardcased packs and wiring them together. But who knows, its possible.

As for cell limitations, I got a funny feeling that we will see at most up to a 6S limit. Reason being the dual pack thing. You can get two 3S packs and wire in series no problem. Also, trakpower even makes a hardcased 3S lipo setup too. 6S should provide plenty of power, but dual 2S packs are no slouch either. In the end, I can see the limit between 4S to 6S, with 4S having the greatest chance.

As for motor, don't know. I just hope that castle doesn't sit on there hands and lave it only to Novak to define what the class rules for motors will be based on what I have heard how 1/10 scale went down (no one submitted other than Novak). If ROAR even gives a hint on getting suggestions for motors, they better submit there Neu based stuff IMMEDIATELY.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:40 PM   #5
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If ROAR ever tries to make the Novak HV/Feigao XL type motor "THE" standard, trust me, we will go down fighting on that one.

The rules MUST remain flexible, and ROAR MUST follow the lead and needs of the class, not the other way around. I think we won't have a problem since Neu, Castle, Tekin and possibly others are early players and all have "non-novak" technology motors.

Electric 1/8 chassis: I think we will see some radical specialized cars eventually. But the class needs to grow much bigger imo, before people will let go off the tried-and-true 1/8 chassis we have now.

I know one mfg. who has talked about doing a belt drive car. That's a radical change if it ever happens Imagine having the belt vs. shaft debate in 1/8 racing
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:58 PM   #6
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I think the cool thing about these conversion is that we are breaking new ground in more ways than one. We have the opportunity to kind of set up everything from scratch.

As for the cars, right now we have been shoehorning electric into a nitro buggy. I really want to see a car developed around being electric. I think single pack is the way to go myself as it just seems less cumbersome. I can really see a manufacturer creating a larger sized b44 type car. How hard could it be?

Us 1/8 brushless guys don't seem to be much about rules, so I think ROAR is goign to have tough one herding us into the beaucracy. I believe this trend is going to turn the hobby on it's side over the next two years or so.

I tell you, when I take my car to the track which is heavily nitro favored, I get all kinds of inquires from people. At first they don't know what to think, then when they see it destroy the nitros on the straights, you can see the drool. Plus the fact I run for about 20 minutes straight. Right now, the limitation seems to be cost and a lack of organized class.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:03 PM   #7
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I B44 on steroids would be sweet, but then you run into the saddle pack batts.

I would like to see the durability of the current 1/8 scale design, but much less overall weight.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:05 PM   #8
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MrConstructor's 1/8 car is a carbon fiber chassis "B44" type like you mention, except that he has the batteries in front.

The new Fusion/Caster car is like the first step toward that. It's the basic concept, but using the existing 1/8 buggy chassis and look.

The future "Fusion V2" may take this same layout and incorporate a more 1/10-looking double deck design and construction... but we shall see.

What I'm working on now is a sort of hybrid of the 1/8 and 1/10 chassis.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Crawler View Post
I B44 on steroids would be sweet, but then you run into the saddle pack batts.

I would like to see the durability of the current 1/8 scale design, but much less overall weight.
Agreed: I want to put the 1/8 on a diet... but I'm not sure how much more weight can be shed than what Losi has done. It's pretty lean.

Scrapping the aluminum chassis completely might be the solution.... or scrapping the 1/8 drivetrain, which is very heavy. Electric carbon fiber belt drive 1/8 buggy?
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:26 PM   #10
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Agreed: I want to put the 1/8 on a diet... but I'm not sure how much more weight can be shed than what Losi has done. It's pretty lean.

Scrapping the aluminum chassis completely might be the solution.... or scrapping the 1/8 drivetrain, which is very heavy. Electric carbon fiber belt drive 1/8 buggy?
I'd be down for a CF main chassis! If the weight were to come down, then all of the aluminum beef used on the current 1/8 scale would be so necessary.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by glassdoctor View Post
Agreed: I want to put the 1/8 on a diet... but I'm not sure how much more weight can be shed than what Losi has done. It's pretty lean.

Scrapping the aluminum chassis completely might be the solution.... or scrapping the 1/8 drivetrain, which is very heavy. Electric carbon fiber belt drive 1/8 buggy?
I like the weight of the current 1/8s. My biggest issue with the 1/10s is that they are too fragile... at least in the hands of a newb driver like me. The 7 to 8lb 1/8's seem to be a lot more durable and much better constructed. My RC8 has taken some tumbles that would have broke my 1/10 scale in two at my track.

I don't think weight is the issue with these cars as they have more than enough power. I just think the balance and overall handling could be improved. However, if we could get the weight down without sacrificng durability, it could open up more options hence the other threads discussion of dropping down to 3s lipos and smaller motors. I think a 3s with a 1509 motor woudl work very well.

I guess I am looking for that unique design kind of like Traxxas did with the Revo to really jump start the class.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:23 AM   #12
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I believe the early days will bring 'converted nitro' type cars, with more innovative designs coming as the manufacturer's analyse the numbers.
I'd like to see a higher voltage become the 'standard', but hardware will ultimately be the limiting factor - 6S seems like a decent compromise.
I prefer a single battery setup, less wires, less mess - and with the new larger ESCs on the way, they are going to need more room, so dual pack setups would have to be very well thought out.
The weight of current 1/8's seems to be about what they need to be to survive the abuse of noob drivers, if there was a way to keep the strength (and affordability) while dropping the weight, there would be a lot of happy drivers. There are not too many areas you could trim down, so the drivetrain would be my pick for a major redesign.
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:55 AM   #13
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If they stick to the 7lb. weight limit then I don't see any way for them to really lighten these cars up much. Not to mention they are way over powered as it is. I think it would be good for r/c racing to see a virtually maintanance free(besides changing oils) & bullet proof car all in one. I also believe it would be good for r/c racing if companies would start to release gear diffs for 1/10th scales for mod racing since alot of newcomers don't know how to properly build a diff & end up getting frustrated with it.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:46 AM   #14
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to get a track ready, body, batteries and all 1/8 to 7 lbs even would be very difficult and it would not be what everyone calls 1/8 tough.
i keep hearing storys about guys having cars that are close to 7 lbs but i dont believe it.
i have weighed a few losi 8 cars that are no frills, nue mamba powered with the popular 5000 4s packs and they all were between 8.05 and 8.15 lbs track ready. the cars also had light micro pin type tires since the track we were at needed them.
they dont need to be that light, in fact i would love to see a min weight in the 7.5+ range so the manufacturers dont feel the need to go down the carbon chassis ect. road. the only thing that will happen if it goes that way is the cars will get more expensive and be more fragile. why ruin a good thing, if your car dosent handle well at about 8lbs then it may need to be better balanced or you just need to work on your driving skills.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:13 AM   #15
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I think a 1/10 type plastic chassis built for 1/8 scale would work if it is done properly. My Rustler VXL with RPM parts ARMs and Shock Towers (FLM Chassis/Tranny) is practically indestructible. About the only way to break anything on that car is to run it into a curb at 60 mph and the couple of times I have smacked a curb haven't done that much damage.

It would be cool if a manufacturer contracted with a company like RPM to truly make 1/8 ARMs, chassis, and shock towers that are indestructible for an electric 1/8th. I am sure it woud be much lighter than the current crop of cars and with the right braces and design probably just as strong.
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