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Old 04-16-2008, 07:18 PM   #76
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I work in Olathe where Castle is, I've heard that they have been working with roar to get a roar approved solution.
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:31 PM   #77
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wyd , you need to take a chill pill , if roar isnt important why are you so upset that castle stuff didnt pass , ray
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:06 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ray3619 View Post
wyd , you need to take a chill pill , if roar isnt important why are you so upset that castle stuff didnt pass , ray
It truely has nothing to do with Castle being ROAR approved. It has everything to do with how stuff was approved and how people are made to believe that Novak was the only company that stepped up with ideas on rules and that is false.

Like I said this is what happens to new technology as it is put down. Kinda like when companies started working on electric cars and now all the Major car companies are making hybrids. New technology that most people didn't want and look at it now as millions are trying to buy them.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:31 PM   #79
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Let me ask this, what makes one motor better over the other in terms of technology or performance? For now, let's not argue that Novak's might blow up or Mamba's aren't ROAR approved. Right now I have Novak's simply because of the ROAR thing. However, if Mamba's are cheaper, and better in terms of technology, I would like to know. It's not like I run any ROAR races. I might like to try a MM or a Tekin. My guess is both of them will be ROAR approved within the next year anyway.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:34 PM   #80
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Electric cars didn't work untill now because the batteries would not last enough cycles. Newer cells like the a123 cells will last alot more cycles then cells previously used will last.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:48 PM   #81
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With the problems of the Novaks going up in smoke, I would not spend my money on one, because there are other options of the market that are the equal of the GTB in terms of performance. So why buy the ticking time bomb? The also need to make the sensor wires with a plug on the motor end like other brands.

If you don't need a ROAR legal system, why not try a Sidewinder? It's dirt cheap and works great according to almost everyone that has one (with the exception of the people that Craps races with of course... )
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:03 PM   #82
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ROAR debate:

Craps: I think maybe you are missing what "we" were saying.

Of course Castle could clone a Novak and thereby have a ROAR legal motor. But you talk like that's the only possible way it can be done... and you blame Castle 100% for not bending over for ROAR. How about letting ROAR take some of the blame for being arrogant and catering to the same old brands.

We don't want Castle to have to build an inferior design motor to fit the rules. We want the ROAR to make legal what Castle and Tekin have made. These companies believe they have a better design that is more efficient, etc than the standard "novak" design motor. They don't want to be stuck with the novak standard. ROAR should step up... pull their head out, and give them the "ROAR Approved" stamp. If they have to update the rules to get it done.. so be it.

It's not wrong for us to have this opinion.

When Orion and Checkpoint made their new funky round brush motors, ROAR did not reject them because they had never seen round brushes before. When Reedy made those big comm motors, same thing... they were made legal. I don't know if there were any existing rules that had to be changed at that tiem to make them legal... but you know they would have done it no matter what.

At any rate, there is no need to post a bunch of screaming pissing crap and talking down at Castle customers... or rather anyone who's not on the Novak bandwagon.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:40 PM   #83
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FIRST OFF, if ANYONE wants to wheel any of my cars if you see me at a race, just ask. Just as long as you promise to post on here what you thought of it!!! HA!


Glassdoctor, well said. This is actually getting entertaining to read, especially when the thread is about the MAMBA system. On one hand, we have people who have the Mamba system and are very satisfied with it's performance. Then on the other side of the ring we have a couple people bashing it who have never used it.... or they have used the mamba with a previous version... obviously that comparison should be thrown out since the new Mamba is way better anyway.





and then somehow we have a debate about A123 cells? And now it's a debate about ROAR rules!

I like how the people running the Novaks seem to be defending themselves like they feel threatened or something... But if someone is going to put down a product and say it is inferior to another, they really shouldn't state their opinion until they've at least tried it, just to be fair to the people who have bought the product and like using it. so I can see why everyone's getting a little heated.

The Mamba is incredibly durable (it's used for 1/8th scale conversions!!!) and it is extremely racer friendly with all of it's adjustments, not just 10 settings per parameter like some others. It feels WAY smoother than my GTB system did with a Novak motor.... I'm stating this because I've tried them both and raced them both. My Castle doesn't cog at all. And a new mamba system with the motor costs about what a GTB is without the motor.

To those of you who switched from a mamba with a 7700 to a gtb with a novak 8.5 and felt it to be easier to drive..... Well no kidding, are you serious?! There's a reason you're running the 8.5 and not a 3.5.

When it comes down to ROAR rules, yeah I wish the Castle motors were legal but until then I don't know of any tracks that really use ROAR rules anyway. Yeah, there are some big races that follow ROAR rules, and when I go to them I'm going to run my LEGAL mamba max and probably an Orion motor. And with the advanced setup options and high output motors, I would think classifying them as basher equipment is like handing a Ducati to a 16 yr old trying to get his motorcycle permit.

My 2 cents. Now GO ON AND KEEP UP THE ARGUING!!! It's giving me something to read while I sit here and sell internet services at work!!
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:31 AM   #84
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I got three MM's setup right now, 4600 in a T4, 5700 in B4 and a 7700 in a academy sbv2pro 4wd buggy. I admit the 7700 is wild in the 4wd and the 5700 is too much for the B4, but the looks from racers is priceless . I admit that i haven't run a newer novak, or any other sensored for that matter (SS5800 was my last Novak). I have punished and tortured two of my MM's, One was in a Gmaxx with a 7XL and 5s, while the other was in my E-revo (also gorilla chassied) with a 9XL and also on 5s Lipo. at 18V I have seen 120 amps. and no overheating. I have run my 4600 for close to an hour straight at race pace, with a 2s 8000mah maxamps Lipo, still no overheat. I admit there was some problems before the V1.17 mamba update, But as said before, smooth as butter now. I can crawl it through a ditch and there is no cogg and no hesitation even barely rolling and no heat buildup (beyond normal) even stalling on said hill.

The MM is strong fast and durable, it can handle well past its specs and cheaper. The only problem keeping the motors from legality, is they are not rebuildable and though i can't find it in the rules anymore, I think that ROAR seems to like the wye wind over the delta the MM motors use.

Sorry for the long post and bad typing (hated english in school, sorry) Just giving my experiences and opinions
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:01 AM   #85
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BTW, before I get accused of "crying" and "complaining" about Castle motors not being ROAR legal:

I personally don't really care... I only see a ROAR race about once a year, at the Regional offroad race. All the tracks around here let them run otherwise, even though they all use ROAR based rules.

But... IMO, ROAR should bend over, not Tekin and Castle.

There is no good reason not to make them legal.

The fact that you can run them at any track 99% of the time.... shows that ROAR needs to wake up and do what the local tracks and racers want. EVERYBODY must think it's ok to run them, so why is ROAR not thinking it's ok?

Could it be catering to certain brands? What other reason can we see? Its politics guys.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:16 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdoctor View Post
But... IMO, ROAR should bend over, not Tekin and Castle.

There is no good reason not to make them legal.

Could it be catering to certain brands? What other reason can we see? Its politics guys.
Well, if the specs of the motor are outside the rules and/or the motor has not been submitted for the approval process, that would be two good reasons not to make them legal.

Maybe the CC motors are legal spec-wise and just have not been submitted.

Catering to specific brands? Of coarse, go to the "Affiliates" page of the website here and see the list that they cater to, with the reason that they cater to these companies stated at the top of the page....

http://www.roarracing.com/affiliates.php
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:57 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyd View Post
It truely has nothing to do with Castle being ROAR approved. It has everything to do with how stuff was approved and how people are made to believe that Novak was the only company that stepped up with ideas on rules and that is false.

Like I said this is what happens to new technology as it is put down. Kinda like when companies started working on electric cars and now all the Major car companies are making hybrids. New technology that most people didn't want and look at it now as millions are trying to buy them.
Why do you guys act like Castle is a new technology when it was Castle that basically cloned the best sensorless and most expensive ESC in the world when they basically copied the Schulze U-Force 75!!! The Germans were way ahead on sensorless technology and Castle took the best one and copied with a few revisions!!! So let's get our story straight! I used Schulzes 2 years before Castle copied them!!!

Again ROAR is not the problem why Castle products are not approved!
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:02 AM   #88
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I think Tekin has gone back to the drawing board after trying to get sensorless to preform and rumor has it Tekin is going sensored with a new system to be competitive.

Noticed on the list Hacker now has a variety of motors. A Hacker C40 8 turn was the first brushless motor I ever owned with Hacker Comp ESC that was a basically an on/off switch.
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:04 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdoctor View Post
BTW, before I get accused of "crying" and "complaining" about Castle motors not being ROAR legal:

I personally don't really care... I only see a ROAR race about once a year, at the Regional offroad race. All the tracks around here let them run otherwise, even though they all use ROAR based rules.

But... IMO, ROAR should bend over, not Tekin and Castle.

There is no good reason not to make them legal.

The fact that you can run them at any track 99% of the time.... shows that ROAR needs to wake up and do what the local tracks and racers want. EVERYBODY must think it's ok to run them, so why is ROAR not thinking it's ok?

Could it be catering to certain brands? What other reason can we see? Its politics guys.
All Castle has to do is submit to the ROAR approval process! What is so hard about that to do!
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:37 AM   #90
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Maybe Castle doesn't need ROAR. They can barely keep some things in stock as it is. They have all kinds of new stuff coming out (I have a Monster Max on back-order). They cater to the common folk, the basher and casual racer. Bashing bores me, but I race a lot (about 3 times a month) and love my CC stuff. I've been to tracks all over the state and out of state. I've never run into a track that strictly follows ROAR rules. I know several track owners and organizers. They would never run a race by ROAR rules as it would cut down the entries.
The fact that ROAR has rules for modified racing shows that there is an agenda. There is catering to certain companies. Modified should be completely open. We all know that too fast of a setup will slow us down, that's why racers don't run 3.5's, 4.5's, etc. I will NEVER race at a ROAR event...and Castle? They are doing just fine without ROAR approval.
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