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Old 03-28-2008, 04:53 PM   #1
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Default Inserts for dummies

Now I know there are various threads with information on what to do with inserts in various conditions.
But it would take a long time to search them all out.
What I need is a guide in one place. This is it.
So spill your knowledge.
How do you trim them?
When do you use a full rear insert in the front tires of a 4WD.
When do you use standard inserts and when do you use optional ones.
When do you use harder and when do you use softer?
etc, etc
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:19 AM   #2
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doesn't answer all your questions (I'm still very noob in RC) but I read this nice trick somewhere:
When competing in very moist conditions, rain, ... the inserts get soaked and become heavy.
One guy replaced his regular inserts with bubble-wrap, with which he filled his tires. This functions nicely as insert, and does not suck up the water or mud.

I hope to read some nice feedback on inserts in this thread. I've asked myself the same questions.

For what it's worth, I would use softer inserts on low-grip conditions
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:23 PM   #3
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Bump
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:41 PM   #4
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not answering any particular questions...just posting what I do to my foams in general

These are the biggest questions to ask when trying to determine what to do to your foams and how firm they should be:

How rough is the track? I don't mean jumps, but the track surface itself. Are there potholes and whooped out corners? the rougher the track, the more of a rounded profile you will want on your tires as you will be less likely to catch an edge and the car will be much more consistent. This determines how much you should cut off the outer corner of the foam. If your track is very smooth, don't cut the corners as this will provide more contact area with the track. I usually cut 3 to 4 mm off the corners at a 45 degree angle as a baseline

next: how much traction does your track supply? If you race on a blown out track with lots of dust and hardly any bite, softer foams are the way to go. If you race on clay and basically have unlimited traction, a harder foam will prevent the carcass from rolling under. When in doubt, err on the firm side.

finally: how fast do you go trough the tread? If your track quickly eats rubber, then there might not be a reason for an aftermarket foam. Just a thought if your on a budget. Most foams that come with the tires are good enough for at least stock racing; they just degrade pretty rapidly so if your foams are dying before your tires, you should pick up aftermarkets
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:48 PM   #5
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not answering any particular questions...just posting what I do to my foams in general

These are the biggest questions to ask when trying to determine what to do to your foams and how firm they should be:

How rough is the track? I don't mean jumps, but the track surface itself. Are there potholes and whooped out corners? the rougher the track, the more of a rounded profile you will want on your tires as you will be less likely to catch an edge and the car will be much more consistent. This determines how much you should cut off the outer corner of the foam. If your track is very smooth, don't cut the corners as this will provide more contact area with the track. I usually cut 3 to 4 mm off the corners at a 45 degree angle as a baseline

next: how much traction does your track supply? If you race on a blown out track with lots of dust and hardly any bite, softer foams are the way to go. If you race on clay and basically have unlimited traction, a harder foam will prevent the carcass from rolling under. When in doubt, err on the firm side.

finally: how fast do you go trough the tread? If your track quickly eats rubber, then there might not be a reason for an aftermarket foam. Just a thought if your on a budget. Most foams that come with the tires are good enough for at least stock racing; they just degrade pretty rapidly so if your foams are dying before your tires, you should pick up aftermarkets
This is some pretty consistant information. Now, I will break down on how to build the tires so that water & low traction do not cause excesive wear & heavey tires.
1-fill the holes of the rims w/ thick CA.(keeps tires from filling w/ dirt & water)
2-turn the tire inside out & wrap a piece of packaging tape around it, you don't want the tape to alter the size of the middle of the tire.(keeps tires from balooning if you give the car too much throtle)
3- poke 6 or so holes in the tires(allows tires to breath, doesn't change performance, allows water & dirt to spin out of the tire when the tires are spinning).
4-slide the tires & foam onto the rim
5-place rubber bands over the rails of the tires//rims
6-run a bead of CA in the rails of the tires//rims
7-let dry
8-balance the tires(unballanced tires will cause a whole lot of vibration which can lead to slop, loose screws, & inconsistancies). An unballanced tire can be caused by inconsistancies in foam trimming & glue in various areas of the tires. To ballance a tire that is way off ballance just wedge a dime into the back side of the rim on the lighter side. You can check for ballance by just seeing if the tires swings back & forth to a position when the tire is freely spun. If this is the case then the side on the bottom when it stops swinging is the heavey side.
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
This is some pretty consistant information. Now, I will break down on how to build the tires so that water & low traction do not cause excesive wear & heavey tires.
1-fill the holes of the rims w/ thick CA.(keeps tires from filling w/ dirt & water)
2-turn the tire inside out & wrap a piece of packaging tape around it, you don't want the tape to alter the size of the middle of the tire.(keeps tires from balooning if you give the car too much throtle)
3- poke 6 or so holes in the tires(allows tires to breath, doesn't change performance, allows water & dirt to spin out of the tire when the tires are spinning).
4-slide the tires & foam onto the rim
5-place rubber bands over the rails of the tires//rims
6-run a bead of CA in the rails of the tires//rims
7-let dry
8-balance the tires(unballanced tires will cause a whole lot of vibration which can lead to slop, loose screws, & inconsistancies). An unballanced tire can be caused by inconsistancies in foam trimming & glue in various areas of the tires. To ballance a tire that is way off ballance just wedge a dime into the back side of the rim on the lighter side. You can check for ballance by just seeing if the tires swings back & forth to a position when the tire is freely spun. If this is the case then the side on the bottom when it stops swinging is the heavey side.
1. No, leave the vent holes (see #3)
2. Wouldn't recommend it. If the tape comes loose then you have a big wad of tape inside your tire, not good. I've done it in the past. Sure you can use the best tape, maybe it will come loose maybe not.
3. Vent the tires where they were designed to be vented (see #1) Don't poke holes in your tires. After a race when you clean your tires (brush & water) Water will get into the foams, not good. Sure some of the water will escape, but your inserts will be crap.
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. Not totally necessary in off road, if you did 4-7 correct the wheel/tire should be pretty balanced.

I always take a little off the outside edge of the foams to give them a rounder profile. I use Bomb-ones alot & just take a sanding drum to the edge, works great. With a softer foam (stock Pro-Line, J-concepts And-1) I wouldn't even bother trimming them cause they'll stuff in there pretty good.
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:01 PM   #7
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1-fill the holes of the rims w/ thick CA.(keeps tires from filling w/ dirt & water)
Interesting, perhaps with firm foams this would work. But back in the day, one of the single best handling improvements I ever came across was just the opposite. Adding air holes to the rims, to reduce tire bouncing. Since then I've always assumed that's why modern rims all (at least mine) have holes. Have foams changed things that much?

Something to try next weekend, I think it's time for the mighty duct tape! Should be good enough for a quick experiment.
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:19 PM   #8
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Interesting, perhaps with firm foams this would work. But back in the day, one of the single best handling improvements I ever came across was just the opposite. Adding air holes to the rims, to reduce tire bouncing. Since then I've always assumed that's why modern rims all (at least mine) have holes. Have foams changed things that much?

Something to try next weekend, I think it's time for the mighty duct tape! Should be good enough for a quick experiment.
Note: you are not filling the hole with CA in order to prevent air flow in and out of the tire...

you would fill it to prevent centripetal force from forcing water into the tire...you then use a leather punch to punch holes in the tire rubber itself in place of the vent holes in the rim. This is done more often in nitro than in electric and I wouldn't do this unless you actually have a problem with tires filling up with dirt or water.
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:32 PM   #9
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Note: you are not filling the hole with CA in order to prevent air flow in and out of the tire...

you would fill it to prevent centripetal force from forcing water into the tire...you then use a leather punch to punch holes in the tire rubber itself in place of the vent holes in the rim. This is done more often in nitro than in electric and I wouldn't do this unless you actually have a problem with tires filling up with dirt or water.
I don't think that would work for me, at the track I'm currently running at cleaning the tires is fairly helpful. Thus holes in the tires, which some of my buds did back in the day, I don't think would address the problem very well. And that's about the only water my tires see, I'm pretty much a yellow bellied chicken when it come to my electron thingys.

Think I will try the closed hole experiment anyway just for fun. The curiosity has gotten hold of the cat!
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:35 PM   #10
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Dave H I need your help I gave you a PM could you check it and give me a replie thanks.
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:28 PM   #11
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Ok, lets assume the track is not wet.
What I am after is all the tricks you need to do to your inserts in certain conditions.
Should you trim both the inside and ouside edge of your inserts?
When would you use dual stage inserts?
When do you use a full rear insert for 4wd front tires and when do you cut them down?
How much do you cut them down?
etc
etc
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:37 PM   #12
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All personal preference.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by fatbear View Post
Ok, lets assume the track is not wet.
What I am after is all the tricks you need to do to your inserts in certain conditions.
Should you trim both the inside and ouside edge of your inserts?
When would you use dual stage inserts?
When do you use a full rear insert for 4wd front tires and when do you cut them down?
How much do you cut them down?
etc
etc

Trimming the inside helps mount up nicer on certain tires, cutting the outside gives rounder profile to tire. I personally dont feel that it is a make or break on cutting a small amount off the outer edge.

dual stage inserts is basically trying to have the best of both worlds, softer at the start, better in bumpy situations over a solid stiff foam but yet still has the harder one for higher speed stability.

Full rear insert, in 2wd I have ran rull rears, and have ran 3/4's rear. the stocks are just so small it dont take many runs for them to break down and become really soft, the more you have kind of helps that. They might actually be a little too much the first few packs, but will get better.

Really it comes down to track, For instance here is one example where inserts were a huge deal. In mod truck 1 year at the cactus I was running Trinity grey foams front and rear. Truck felt really good (except) at the end of the straight it was doing stupid stuff. I was talking to Matt Francis and he said man you need some of these Proline Grey's. he handed me a set of 4 to mount up. I put those in which were only a little bit stiffer than the Trinity ones, but yet on the track it was night and day.

My general rule is if track is clay where you run losi pinks or silvers front and rear slicks, then I try to run as stiff as foam as possible as long as track isnt real rough. However if it is a track like my local track that drys some you have to be careful as the day goes the track drys out and you can still run slicks but need a stock foam insert. If it is a highbite blue groove track I generally start with either a full rear foam or at least 3/4 rear in front, and a trinity grey rear. ocassionally will run a stock rear as well. and for slick tracks 9 out of 10 times I run stock inserts.
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