Any1 else's tire bill outta control...
01-19-2008, 08:30 PM
#16
Tech Apprentice
Well im wondering if i should get into 2wd stadium racing or not. Im wanting to bash and race every once in awhile would it be better to go 4wheel drive? Also is the Firestorm a good truck any after parts or anything.
01-19-2008, 08:36 PM
#17
This is an interesting discussion. Definitely an issue that has bugged me for the past 8 years of racing.
I really am not looking to get into an argument over which class goes through tires quicker to stay competitive. Certainly there are classes which burn through tires very quickly and others not so quickly, but really, to stay competitive the majority of 'track surfaces' almost require a constant supply of new, fresh tires (there are the obvious ones that don't, such as the indoor clay track that is prepped nicely night after night so all you need is one set of slicks to get you through a season). Whether the tire wears out or the foam, it is 'unusable' to compete at that higher level. I too like to save wheels (another ridiculous cost in my humble opinion), but it is a lot of extra work that sucks up a lot of time. I might as well just buy a new set. Besides, if my wheels get bent in the course of being used, I really don't want to reuse them at that point anyway.
What I'd really like to know from anyone "in the know" is it REALLY necessary to price tires as high as what they are? I understand R&D costs, racing team costs, manufacturing costs, overhead, etc..... but man, it just seems like the tire companies could get by (and get by well) at setting a very low price on tires. As a racing enthusiast, I'd be much more inclined to constantly buy new tires if they were a cheap consumable part. I think out of all the consumables on our cars, tires go the quickest, yet they are very expensive. It seems so odd when you compare the actual rubber mass of our tires to a full size car..... and yet, for the same price as outifitting a truggy, you could basically outfit a cheaper full size car. That seems nuts to me. Sure, there are more people buying tires for full size cars than our cars, but what if tire manufacturers just one day dropped the price of a set of two tires to 5-7$? Would we all buy the same amount of tires that we did before, or would we be inclined to buy a lot more..... even more to the point that we'd spend more money? i.e., I'm going to a big race, I'm spending 100$ on tires. That gets me 1-4 sets depending on your class of racing. Or........... now tires are set at 5-7$ a set. Hmmmmm.... I'd like to really put a good run at getting a sponsorship or really really do well.... I think I'll buy as many tires as I need to have a brand new set each qualifier and main. Now I spend 150$. I certainly can't speak for everyone else, but I would buy lots more tires and spend more money that I would now knowing that I could get a lot more tires for my money as opposed to just buying a few sets and trying to make them last since they cost so much.
Once again, I really don't know how it works at these companies. Maybe they really do need to charge 11-30$ per set of tires. It just seems like it shouldn't have to be that way for them to make money, and I still believe if they dropped the price significantly, they'd sell A LOT more tires even though their profit margin on each sale would be much less.
I really am not looking to get into an argument over which class goes through tires quicker to stay competitive. Certainly there are classes which burn through tires very quickly and others not so quickly, but really, to stay competitive the majority of 'track surfaces' almost require a constant supply of new, fresh tires (there are the obvious ones that don't, such as the indoor clay track that is prepped nicely night after night so all you need is one set of slicks to get you through a season). Whether the tire wears out or the foam, it is 'unusable' to compete at that higher level. I too like to save wheels (another ridiculous cost in my humble opinion), but it is a lot of extra work that sucks up a lot of time. I might as well just buy a new set. Besides, if my wheels get bent in the course of being used, I really don't want to reuse them at that point anyway.
What I'd really like to know from anyone "in the know" is it REALLY necessary to price tires as high as what they are? I understand R&D costs, racing team costs, manufacturing costs, overhead, etc..... but man, it just seems like the tire companies could get by (and get by well) at setting a very low price on tires. As a racing enthusiast, I'd be much more inclined to constantly buy new tires if they were a cheap consumable part. I think out of all the consumables on our cars, tires go the quickest, yet they are very expensive. It seems so odd when you compare the actual rubber mass of our tires to a full size car..... and yet, for the same price as outifitting a truggy, you could basically outfit a cheaper full size car. That seems nuts to me. Sure, there are more people buying tires for full size cars than our cars, but what if tire manufacturers just one day dropped the price of a set of two tires to 5-7$? Would we all buy the same amount of tires that we did before, or would we be inclined to buy a lot more..... even more to the point that we'd spend more money? i.e., I'm going to a big race, I'm spending 100$ on tires. That gets me 1-4 sets depending on your class of racing. Or........... now tires are set at 5-7$ a set. Hmmmmm.... I'd like to really put a good run at getting a sponsorship or really really do well.... I think I'll buy as many tires as I need to have a brand new set each qualifier and main. Now I spend 150$. I certainly can't speak for everyone else, but I would buy lots more tires and spend more money that I would now knowing that I could get a lot more tires for my money as opposed to just buying a few sets and trying to make them last since they cost so much.
Once again, I really don't know how it works at these companies. Maybe they really do need to charge 11-30$ per set of tires. It just seems like it shouldn't have to be that way for them to make money, and I still believe if they dropped the price significantly, they'd sell A LOT more tires even though their profit margin on each sale would be much less.
01-19-2008, 08:45 PM
#19
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Hey Laterilus,
Some good points there. It would be great if tires became cheaper but I can't see it happening.
I'm fortunate at the moment that over the past couple of years I've been buying a few extra sets with each order and have stockpiled boxes of tires. I must have at least 70 pairs of 1/10 rears in my cupboard. As well as that I have parts coming out of my ears. Hope fully this year I can get by without buying much... Having said that, we're going to go to lipos - and a new radio would be nice (completely unnecessarily though) Man the spending never stops.
If my wife comes racing with me, well last year we had three cars on the track at off road and two at on road. This year we'll have four at off road - possibly five coz I might run 2wd stock and mod. That starts to eat up tires big time.
Some good points there. It would be great if tires became cheaper but I can't see it happening.
I'm fortunate at the moment that over the past couple of years I've been buying a few extra sets with each order and have stockpiled boxes of tires. I must have at least 70 pairs of 1/10 rears in my cupboard. As well as that I have parts coming out of my ears. Hope fully this year I can get by without buying much... Having said that, we're going to go to lipos - and a new radio would be nice (completely unnecessarily though) Man the spending never stops.
If my wife comes racing with me, well last year we had three cars on the track at off road and two at on road. This year we'll have four at off road - possibly five coz I might run 2wd stock and mod. That starts to eat up tires big time.
01-19-2008, 08:49 PM
#20
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01-19-2008, 09:05 PM
#21
Tech Apprentice
how long do tires usually last if you bash with them? say two days a week and one day on the weekends?
01-19-2008, 09:40 PM
#22
Hey Laterilus,
Some good points there. It would be great if tires became cheaper but I can't see it happening.
I'm fortunate at the moment that over the past couple of years I've been buying a few extra sets with each order and have stockpiled boxes of tires. I must have at least 70 pairs of 1/10 rears in my cupboard. As well as that I have parts coming out of my ears. Hope fully this year I can get by without buying much... Having said that, we're going to go to lipos - and a new radio would be nice (completely unnecessarily though) Man the spending never stops.
If my wife comes racing with me, well last year we had three cars on the track at off road and two at on road. This year we'll have four at off road - possibly five coz I might run 2wd stock and mod. That starts to eat up tires big time.
Some good points there. It would be great if tires became cheaper but I can't see it happening.
I'm fortunate at the moment that over the past couple of years I've been buying a few extra sets with each order and have stockpiled boxes of tires. I must have at least 70 pairs of 1/10 rears in my cupboard. As well as that I have parts coming out of my ears. Hope fully this year I can get by without buying much... Having said that, we're going to go to lipos - and a new radio would be nice (completely unnecessarily though) Man the spending never stops.
If my wife comes racing with me, well last year we had three cars on the track at off road and two at on road. This year we'll have four at off road - possibly five coz I might run 2wd stock and mod. That starts to eat up tires big time.
Reptile, about how long tires lasting when you bash cannot be determined due to if you have 2wd or 4wd and also the fact when your bashing you are on multiple surfaces and driving in a inconsistant manner. Mainly if you want them to last long you would want some rtr type tires.
01-19-2008, 10:38 PM
#23
In Sweden where i live the price of a pair of 1/10 rear buggy tires like the losi taper pins is 23USD, Something to think about when you buy tires next time, the gasoline price is 7.3USD/gallon...
have fun!
have fun!
01-20-2008, 08:21 AM
#25
Tires WILL NEVER drop in price. They WILL increase in price in the near future. Sad thing to say but oh well, it happens.
01-20-2008, 08:48 AM
#26
With BL + LiPo, tires and gas money (for my scale car) have become the two most cost prohibitive factors for me when it comes to racing and I don't think that will ever change. I like the Losi pink compound for my truck and buggy, but Pro-Line's M3 compound and Panther's soft compound hold up better at the local track. We all makes choices: I buy a fresh set of pinks for my buggy every race day and a fresh set of pinks for my truck every other race day and I still get lapped by the factory drivers running thrashed tires at club races. 
01-20-2008, 10:29 AM
#27
i spoke w/a friend last nite bout 4wd mod for this spring and we discussed this tire deal. i race 18th touring right now and its a good thing the tires are so cheap (6/pr) b/c u go thru em.
but we talked bout offroad tires. the $ is rough but our deal, but i think i should say how annoyin it was to find a tire that worked round after round, whether the track was prepped, repaired, swept, etc. i have an entire toolbox filled w/tires for 2wd. and it seemed it was a big guessin game...to the point of when the last truggy crossed the line in qualifying, it looked like the next rd of 2wd mod b/c EVERY driver was out on the track tryin tires.
so a control tire eh? well thats a great idea to minimize what all you have to carry. but u can counter with fact that people are just goin to buy more tires b/c newer 1s handle better and thus faster. so could end up if shop is out of tires, have's vs have not's. but its that way now to find that 1 hot tire, even if it only lasts 1 rd. now u think most wouldnt do such a thing for club races, but i guess we're all guilty of wanting to go fast.
even had a situation 2yrs back when a track had a control, and it was specified that the set was to be used all day. well a few of the hot dogs went out and in 1st rd put in times good enuff to get them into the show, maybe not TQ, but in. then sat rd2, others saw this and sat rd3. to point where only 2 cars in both heats went out (includin a father/son duo who were runnin for fun and didnt understand all the hub-bub bout the tires).
it was a disaster b/c u ended up w/many levels of bad vibe.
they tried the following wk to set 2 sets of tires for day, figurin folks would go 2n2. well similar deal in that guys went out and ran all 3rds on 1 set, and if they were not improvin their times in rd2 or rd3, they'd pull off and go back to the pits and begin servicing their car before having to marshall. 1 heat got real lucky b/c they didnt have to marshall after every1 in the following race sat out. sheesh at that pt lets just have a 20min race all in 1 shot, then go home.
like the thoughts back n 4th, and i have done some onroad both rubber and foam and some classes are worse on tires than others. but as long as we racers have this thirst, whether active or passive or repressed , i believe we're all just contributin to the issue.
R
but we talked bout offroad tires. the $ is rough but our deal, but i think i should say how annoyin it was to find a tire that worked round after round, whether the track was prepped, repaired, swept, etc. i have an entire toolbox filled w/tires for 2wd. and it seemed it was a big guessin game...to the point of when the last truggy crossed the line in qualifying, it looked like the next rd of 2wd mod b/c EVERY driver was out on the track tryin tires.
so a control tire eh? well thats a great idea to minimize what all you have to carry. but u can counter with fact that people are just goin to buy more tires b/c newer 1s handle better and thus faster. so could end up if shop is out of tires, have's vs have not's. but its that way now to find that 1 hot tire, even if it only lasts 1 rd. now u think most wouldnt do such a thing for club races, but i guess we're all guilty of wanting to go fast.
even had a situation 2yrs back when a track had a control, and it was specified that the set was to be used all day. well a few of the hot dogs went out and in 1st rd put in times good enuff to get them into the show, maybe not TQ, but in. then sat rd2, others saw this and sat rd3. to point where only 2 cars in both heats went out (includin a father/son duo who were runnin for fun and didnt understand all the hub-bub bout the tires).
it was a disaster b/c u ended up w/many levels of bad vibe.
they tried the following wk to set 2 sets of tires for day, figurin folks would go 2n2. well similar deal in that guys went out and ran all 3rds on 1 set, and if they were not improvin their times in rd2 or rd3, they'd pull off and go back to the pits and begin servicing their car before having to marshall. 1 heat got real lucky b/c they didnt have to marshall after every1 in the following race sat out. sheesh at that pt lets just have a 20min race all in 1 shot, then go home.
like the thoughts back n 4th, and i have done some onroad both rubber and foam and some classes are worse on tires than others. but as long as we racers have this thirst, whether active or passive or repressed , i believe we're all just contributin to the issue.
R
01-20-2008, 10:52 AM
#28
it's just the way racing is. If you want to be competitive, you need to have a bunch of tires on hand to do testing...which compound, foam, tread is best. Usually there is one single tire that works the best at a track, but then it comes down to who sauced theirs the best....and sauce takes you from a 30 run tire to a 15 good run, 5 decent run, give to the novice kids.
In my experience with off-road, which has been my entire racing career, tires can be as expensive or inexpensive as you make them. The cost of being competitive.
In my experience with off-road, which has been my entire racing career, tires can be as expensive or inexpensive as you make them. The cost of being competitive.
01-20-2008, 11:09 AM
#29
One thing I wish would happen with some tracks over here in the states is this. With all this talk about tires wearing out too quickly on blue groove surfaces and what have you. What I am surprised is that a track hasn't tried to build a grass track with supercross style jumps. I had a practice track like this when I was a kid in my parents back yard. It was easy on tires like a loamier track but held together better like a clay track. One other nice little side effect is that the cars generally stay cleaner per run.
01-20-2008, 01:45 PM
#30
Tech Apprentice
last season i found out that the track surface isnt the only thing wearing tires fast. i had a set of tires last 3-4 trophy races where i did every heat and main and once i wasted a set of tires to the point where they were almost bald in one run. its about driving style and how smooth your driving and if your doing many burnouts or not. i find that driving electrics like a nitro with throttle bursts kills tires fast.