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Old 01-17-2008, 11:37 AM   #16
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I know they are the same company. The XXXT-CR comes with a Team Losi logo on the box and the RTR's don't. See for yourself on their product page. http://www.losi.com/Products/Start.aspx notice how all the true racing stuff is still under the Team Losi brand? That is just a minor detail I know but it's how Losi is marketing their stuff. They are not claiming this to be a race truck.

I see no reason why RTR's would chase anybody out of the hobby. If your into racing and know what your looking for in a product you simply buy the product that fits your needs. Why would some other product that you have no interest in chase you out of the hobby? That makes no sense at all.

The RTR's are driving me out of the hobby because the companies are no longer making something that I would like to buy. I don't race that much so I don't need a Fatory Team, Pro, Turbo, XXX car, yet I have been in the hobby for over 20 years so I don't need another piece of crap radio or can 05 motor. So, with companies making RTR's instead of interesting products there is simply nothing for me to buy. I am a descent racer that likes to race around the back yard with brushless motors. The top of the line cars are not good for this because ALL of their tranny's suck!! I don't care if it is Losi, Associated, or Kyosho, none of them can take any real power. Don't tell me to loosen the slipper either, those are just big band-aid fixes for piss poor design.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:50 AM   #17
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They seem to be doing fine. Maybe they are laying low for awhile on the development. Who knows what they might be working on. You know, Team Associated and Kyosho have RTR's too. The companies need to make money to do development...just like real car companies. Gotta sell to the public to support the race team. That's how a lot of companies get started.

I don't see the point of this thread anyway. If you don't like Losi then don't buy it. Why burn them at the stake on rctech?

One more thing, the comment about Losi selling out is hilarious. What are they some punk band? God forbid a company that sells toy cars is in business to make some money. If I was in the business of manufacturing RC kits and could triple or quadruple my income by selling a few RTR's I would be stupid not to do it.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:50 AM   #18
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Its all about the $$$$$ I applaud losi for even having a racing program any more I would wager that their racing program has been losing money over the last few years. Many of you probably don't remember but Traxxas used to make good race cars but quickly realized where the money is and dropped their racing program entirely. At least Losi/Horizon is still producing race cars.

I can't blame anyone for wanting to increase profits. Its what I spend every day trying to do at my company.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:52 AM   #19
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The old school trannies were designed to be super light for limited power aplications. If you want a car w/ a beefy trans then pick up that tricked out tamiya buggy or a e-firestorm. I'm sure hpi will come out w/ an ss kit @ some point. It actually looks like a very promising car w/ the upgrades currently available.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #20
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As I said in the other thread, and I'll say it again, it's a MAJOR marketing flaw on Losi's part. Anybody with ANY advertising or marketing background knows the problems with trying to please to wide of a market with one brand. That's what LOSI has done.... and they have pissed off the small percentage that buy losi because of the top end racing kits. I'm not saying people buy RC cars because of their names...... but people do buy things based on a brands rep. That's why when a company makes a high-end kit, they DONT sell a lower version. Buyers don't want their friends thinking they bought a low end item when in actuality it's the expensive models. GT bicycles almost went out of business when they started selling their bikes at Walmart because people didn't want to spend $1500 on a bike that could be confused with an item someone paid $100 for. THAT is why Losi really [email protected]#%% up and should have released all of their RTRs under another name..... WHICH THEY STARTED TO DO... either through LOSI SPORT.. or SPORTWERKS. But even Losi Sport is too close to the parent name.

And if they were hoping to build off of the Losi name..... well that's pretty narrow minded since it's already established that the basher percentage is huge compared to the very small racer percentage.

And that's my 2 cents. ..
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:17 PM   #21
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But from a marketing standpoint, how many real car commercials have you seen that reference "race inspired" or "same concept as our winning race design" or something like that. It happens ALL the time.

The XXX-T is one of the two most popular stadium trucks on the market for racers (the other obviously being the T4). They simply took a proven chassis design and borrowed from a proven race quality vehicle, put a 2.4ghz remote, brushless system in and beefed up a few options to survive the bashers.

I guess I just don't see how that's evil or worthy of the bashing this thing is receiving. I hope they kick some Rustler butt on the store shelves.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:21 PM   #22
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As I said in the other thread, and I'll say it again, it's a MAJOR marketing flaw on Losi's part. Anybody with ANY advertising or marketing background knows the problems with trying to please to wide of a market with one brand. That's what LOSI has done.... and they have pissed off the small percentage that buy losi because of the top end racing kits.
But wouldn't you also say that anyone with any marketing background knows that financially it makes more sense to appeal to the masses rather than "the small percentage" as you say it?

If they make a move that costs them 100 sales while creating 400 new ones, from a marketing standpoint it's a victory. I know it's not as simple as that, but it is simply a company doing what needs to be done to make money.


-edit- I posted that before I even saw what Losi's new product was. Brushless 1/10 RTR truck.. I was bound to happen. Traxxas hit a home run with their VXL series. Tough, fun brushless out of the box for $300, just add a battery? That's a deal.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:35 PM   #23
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Losi producing RTR's isn't a big deal. Its the fact that they have cut back their sponsored drivers and the races that they sponsor - the diminishing support of organized racing is dissappointing. It one thing to sell a r/c race car as a product - its another level when you support racing.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:54 PM   #24
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8 years ago electric racing was huge. When you purchased a new 2wd you had 2 to chose from in every class. Today there are lots of rides to pick from. So, less market, more competition. Does that sound like a market you want to focus all your resources on? There are alot of drivers that will be very fast no matter what they are driving. A while back Traxas was in the business of tearing up the track & not the back yard. Yes, Traxxas cars were making the big show.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:59 PM   #25
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You guys are right... It does make sense to appeal to the RTR market because it is a majority. And yes, you do hear "from our race proven designs".

But I can't quit bringing up this example because it's perfect for this situation. Look at Toyota. They make a wide range of cars... But if they released a $15,000 car under the LEXUS name, it would discredit Lexus... because the first thing you think of when you hear Lexus is fine luxury and expensive. If Lexus offered cheaper cars, it would discredit their brand image. But Toyota owns lexus, and they do want to go after the entry-level, youth inspired market... therefore they have SCION. Every aspect of the market is covered without getting hurting either brand. When a car company uses "race inspired"... they show a car that's not even in their production line... which is what Sportwerks could do by showing a losi vehicle in their advertising.


I know I went way out in left field but sometimes it's easier to explain things with examples.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:00 PM   #26
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why does there need to be a 3rd thread about this
...because it's a great way to get 3,600 posts in 6 months!
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:13 PM   #27
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Bashing is boring, been there, done that. Imagine a new racer showing up to the track with this rtr, the mod drivers don't want them in their class. Racers support their LHS by buying parts and upgrades. It's not just about profits for the rtr makers, without club racing this hobby is dead. Losi is not junk but if they don't support hardcore racers, big victories on the track will be a thing of the past. I'll stick to compamies that support racers who stick around for years unlike bashers who play with it and self it until the next time. I guess with stupid speed comes with broken parts, that's one way to make money.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:19 PM   #28
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Bashing is boring, been there, done that. Imagine a new racer showing up to the track with this rtr, the mod drivers don't want them in their class. Racers support their LHS by buying parts and upgrades. It's not just about profits for the rtr makers, without club racing this hobby is dead. Losi is not junk but if they don't support hardcore racers, big victories on the track will be a thing of the past. I'll stick to compamies that support racers who stick around for years unlike bashers who play with it and self it until the next time. I guess with stupid speed comes with broken parts, that's one way to make money.
nail on the head right here, thats the issue not that they make rtr's its that they lost the roots of what team losi was founded upon.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:45 PM   #29
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nail on the head right here, thats the issue not that they make rtr's its that they lost the roots of what team losi was founded upon.
The family doesnt own the company any longer... The 'roots' went out the window the day the deal was inked, and the company has been run the way the NEW owners see fit... which has been to make money.. If people are that upset about it, they should be blaming Pops for selling the place, not Horizon for buying it, and running it their way.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:46 PM   #30
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oops, double post
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