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Old 01-16-2008, 04:08 PM   #1
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Default 17.5 in Off-Road

Since ROAR annonced that 17.5 will be the stock class, I was wondering how that will physically affect the newer versions of off-road trucks and buggies. With the addition of LiPO's what next?

Besides being slower, what will change?

Will AE make a T5 and B5 with lower gear ratios for the 13.5 and 17.5 motors? Or will they just release a extended motor plate to mount on a bigger pinion?
Since there is no reduction in weight, do I pack the lead in the rear or use LiPO lead to balance out?
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:04 PM   #2
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1:1 trannys
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:50 PM   #3
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Direct Drive like the pan cars....hmmm...
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:04 AM   #4
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No reason to buy a 17.5 unless you are going to the Nats or Regional race. ROAR is recommending the local programs to keep doing what they were doing until next year when the 13.5 will have it's own class.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:15 AM   #5
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I still dont understand why you totally change from what has become the standard to something else.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:16 AM   #6
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I still dont understand why you totally change from what has become the standard to something else.
Because it is ROAR, why would it make sense?
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:22 AM   #7
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No reason to buy a 17.5 unless you are going to the Nats or Regional race. ROAR is recommending the local programs to keep doing what they were doing until next year when the 13.5 will have it's own class.
Once 13.5 goes Super Stock and replaces the 19t class in 2009, will that mean that 13.5's are no longer stock legal for the local club races? I'm assuming tracks like Carolinas and Grove will just keep the 2 mixed and not run a true Super Stock by itself...but I could be wrong.

17.5 only matters at national level events from my understanding as Tim stated above. I have one on the way for my oval car and I might do some testing with it on the off-road side just to see how much of a difference there really is once it's geared right.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:28 AM   #8
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Are the 17.5's much slower than the 27t brushed stuff in off road? Many say that the 13.5 is closer to a 19t than a stocker. I haven't seen either on the track.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:31 AM   #9
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IMO, this shouldn't even be an issue for offroad. Offroaders aren't going to buy 17.5's because they are too slow and 13.5's have already become the standard for BL stock offroad. Regardless, the 27T/17.5 class is just a recommended transitional stock class for club level racing whereas Super Stock/13.5 will become the regional/national stock class. Offroaders who race stock will keep using 13.5's at the club level until they are the official Super Stock motor in 2009. Some of us might have to sack up and strap in a 10.5 (or 19T) to be competitive at regional/national races in the meantime, but I think that's a small concession, which helps integrate the new technology into racing.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:53 AM   #10
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Are the 17.5's much slower than the 27t brushed stuff in off road? Many say that the 13.5 is closer to a 19t than a stocker. I haven't seen either on the track.
This depends entirely on the gearing and the vehicle from my personal experience. In my BK1 with a 13.5 I can clear any jump on our local tracks and out accelerate/out run most 27T brushed vehicles unless it's someone who is absolute at the top of their game in brushed motor maintenance and tuning. But that's also geared with 27/78 gearing. The buggy is light enough to still accelerate well.

In my XXX-T, the 13.5 can't clear the same doubles that the buggy could and is noticeably closer to a 27T brushed motor mostly due to weight. If you gear up, you loose acceleration. If you gear down, you loose top end. Much more accurate comparison to a 27T.

On-road is a completely different story and unfortunately I think that ROAR was looking at many of the on-road classes when they were steering this decision.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:02 AM   #11
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So the 17.5 is way slower than a 27t any way you slice it?

Maybe the smarter way to go would've been to have 13.5/27t this year (It's a transition year the way the rules are written) and then next season go 17.5 stock, 13.5 pro stock. This way the 13.5 owners have a home this year and next year. Putting the 17.5 against will just keep brushed stock alive one more year.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:26 AM   #12
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But if you do that, where would the brushed motors find a home at next season? I dont' think brushed is going away anytime soon just for cost factor alone. $35 for a good stock motor and maybe $60 for an entry level ESC vs. $220+ for a 13.5/17.5 brushless system.

So they have to pair them up with something. Many compare a 13.5 to a freshly tuned, cut and aligned brushed motor. The problem is that that brushed motor has 1 run at that quality before it needs maintenance to keep up again.

What they really need is to allow brushed stock to move from 27T to maybe a 21T spec type motor since 27T is really closest to a theoretical 15.5 brushless in my opinion.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:40 AM   #13
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But if you do that, where would the brushed motors find a home at next season? I dont' think brushed is going away anytime soon just for cost factor alone. $35 for a good stock motor and maybe $60 for an entry level ESC vs. $220+ for a 13.5/17.5 brushless system.

So they have to pair them up with something. Many compare a 13.5 to a freshly tuned, cut and aligned brushed motor. The problem is that that brushed motor has 1 run at that quality before it needs maintenance to keep up again.

What they really need is to allow brushed stock to move from 27T to maybe a 21T spec type motor since 27T is really closest to a theoretical 15.5 brushless in my opinion.
Brushed motors go the way of the dinosaur. The need to.

The cost comparison is not valid because a stock motor's life span is very short. If a new racer spends $95 on an entry level speed control and motor then odds are they also only spent $25 on cheap batteries. They aren't even racing yet, they are off the back. $220 for a BL system and $80 for one Lipo pack and the racer is competitively powered and will be for a long time to come with nearly no maintnence.

Any further development of the brushed platform is a step backwards. I understand that there are guys out there that take pride in their ability to tune a stock motor and go fast but nowhere near enough of them to be considered a customer base. For every of of them there are 10 racers that abandoned stock racing because of them. If racing keeps catering to that guy they will continue to push away the mass of racers that want it to be easier and more fair.

A 13.5 motor is a 13.5 motor. A 17.5 motor is a 17.5 motor. There is no variance because of one racer's willingness to spend money on a lathe and brushes and time tinkering. That's real stock racing.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:46 AM   #14
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I'm not arguing that brushed shouldn't go away. History shows that it's not that easy though. This is definitely a step in the right direction.

I run "almost" all brushless. But converting 6 vehicles to all brushless is a hefty investment that can't be done all in one season (for me anyway) My primary classes have all been converted, but my secondary class vehicles and my son's truck will stay brushed for a while still at least.

Like mentioned before though, this wont affect club level racing in any way for quite some time. And even then, I don't think the track owners are ready to tell their racers that they all have to run out and buy 17.5 motors to race in stock. They'll keep with what works for them at the local level.

National is a different story obviously and if they want to go all brushless for Nats, GREAT! I'm all for it.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:55 AM   #15
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You are right about the conversion costs. It will be a tough pill to swallow at first. Hopefully many will see brushed racing as "financing" their performance. Buy in cheaper and make payments for the life of the motor. lol

We will also se better and better BL sytems for lower and lower prices. coming available from more brands too. The new Losi RTR street truck is a good example of the type of system I am refering to. It's coming...
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