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Old 01-17-2008, 10:03 AM   #16
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Brushless will drop price in the next year or so if I had to guess. Currently it's the ESC that is driving the prices up, but as they advance the ESC's they will get cheaper.

And with the "light" lines such as the XBR from Novak, the Sidewinder from Castle and even the VLX system from Traxxas, they will have to start coming down to be competitive as more companies get in the mix and the technology evolves.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:07 AM   #17
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Why run stock & 6 minute mod when you can run li//bl pro truck w/ 20 minute mains? As the American $ decreases in value people are going to see the price of nitros increase & that is only going to piss them off & tempt them to switch to a cheaper class that will still give them ease of maintnance & long run times. unecesary maintnance is not essential to racing, it is just plain stupid & a waste of time. If you are willing to spend an hour tinkering w/ a motor to be faster then you can just spend your spare time on the track instead of tinkering.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:20 AM   #18
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Why run stock & 6 minute mod when you can run li//bl pro truck w/ 20 minute mains? As the American $ decreases in value people are going to see the price of nitros increase & that is only going to piss them off & tempt them to switch to a cheaper class that will still give them ease of maintnance & long run times. unecesary maintnance is not essential to racing, it is just plain stupid & a waste of time. If you are willing to spend an hour tinkering w/ a motor to be faster then you can just spend your spare time on the track instead of tinkering.
As you know, we run 20 minute mains in "pro" truck here in the Carolinas. It's a great format. However more than one 20 minute main in a given race day creates time issues with getting all of the racing done in one day. Especially on days where we have more than a few 20 minute nitro races in the lineup.

Also remember that Nitro is much more durable. Running 20 minutes with electrics takes a lot of wear and tear out of the vehicle. I know many people, myself included at one point in time who were frustrated with 20 minute runs because it was constantly breaking hubs, arms and shock towers from the extended race conditions. As you get to be a better drive, you learn how to drive with less stress on the vehicle though, so it's a good class to move up into.

I agree that Stock and Super Stock should move up to at least an 8 minute main...maybe 10 min tops. But that's really a discussion for another thread since it goes off-topic.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:58 AM   #19
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What they really need is to allow brushed stock to move from 27T to maybe a 21T spec type motor since 27T is really closest to a theoretical 15.5 brushless in my opinion.
Too bad 23T motors aren't popular here in the USA like they are in Asia, as that would be a good match for the 13.5s (I think).

The comment about ROAR doing this pertaining to on-road seems to be spot on. 17.5 is very similar to 27T it seems (again, for on-road).

When is someone going to open the ol' wallet and try a new LRP 15.5 Eraser motor vs. 27T on an off-road layout?
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:14 AM   #20
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When is someone going to open the ol' wallet and try a new LRP 15.5 Eraser motor vs. 27T on an off-road layout?
I'll bring the stop watch
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:55 AM   #21
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Take the big race at CRCRC last weekend, the 2 traditional Stock clases that only allowed brushed 27 turn and nickel batteries only were the 2 smallest classes(except Electric 1/8th scale) at race where they used to be considerably larger with the mod classes getting alot larger with brushless everywhere. Just think how much bigger the Stock classes would have been if they allowed the 13.5 BL and li-pos run in it!

The signs are on the wall with brushed going by the wayside and the new mainstream Stock Class will be the 13.5 Super Stock Class that on the local level should allow the 27 turn motors as an option to race with them.

The move was not so much to make the 13.5 illegal as much as it is to pave the way for the future 13.5 to be the Stock Class everybody races in next year!
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:23 PM   #22
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The 17.5 shouldn't be slower than a brushed motor. It should be equal. No race organization has ever said that the 13.5 was the replacement. It was a manufacturer. And it took two attempts to get close, but with testing. It really took three. So, if you jumped on the brushless bandwagon, you just gave the manufacturer money for three motors to try to stay somewhat legal. But facts are facts. The 13.5 has more punch than a true stock, when geared to the moon, like people are doing. Facts are, at the club level, guys who were in the B, are now in the A. And guys who were lower A, are now towards the front of it. But a 13.5 has no advantage....yeah, right.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:11 PM   #23
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The 27T and 17.5 are the closest match of any of the "equivalents". Second is 13.5 and 19T.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:28 PM   #24
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13.5 isnt even close to 19T and you guys know that. for off-road they should leave the motors the same. the dying touring car class is just F'n everything up in terms of new rules for new technology. at the Jconcepts race it was clear that the current 10.5 motors are close to a 19T as both of them ran together and put down very competitive times with each other with eqaul drivers. the probelm is now when you use a class that has unlimited traction and absolutely ridicoulous voltage to gauge how "fast" something is as compared to something else you will ALWAYS get skewed results. I applauad dawn for stepping up to the plate and taking the lipo issue on full steam and i know that this it is just the begining but lets not get started in the wrong direction. they need to look at off-raod seperate from on-raod because they are NOTHING alike.

with that said as well its good to see all the manufacturers stepping in as well to help solve the current situation
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Last edited by punkracer24; 01-17-2008 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:37 PM   #25
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13.5 isnt even close to 19T and you guys know that. for off-road they should leave the motors the same. the dying touring car class is just F'n everything up in terms of new rules for new technology. at the Jconcepts race it was clear that the current 10.5 motors are close to a 19T as both of them ran together and put down very competitive times with each other with eqaul drivers. the probelm is now when you use a class that has unlimited traction and absolutely ridicoulous voltage to gauge how "fast" something is as compared to something else you will ALWAYS get skewed results. I applauad dawn for stepping up to the plate and taking the lipo issue on full steam and i know that this it is just the begining but lets not get started in the wrong direction. they need to look at off-raod seperate from on-raod because they are NOTHING alike.

with that said as well its good to see all the manufacturers stepping in as well to help solve the current situation
I have to say, at our track, the 13.5 and the 27T brushed are almost equal. Week in week out the main winners are different. I have not run a 17.5 so I will reserve comment on that. But saying that the 13.5 is like a 19T is just ridiculous compared to what we experience at Planet RC in Indy.

Also, anyone knows that a faster motor does not a better racer make...
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:56 PM   #26
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I have to say, at our track, the 13.5 and the 27T brushed are almost equal. Week in week out the main winners are different. I have not run a 17.5 so I will reserve comment on that. But saying that the 13.5 is like a 19T is just ridiculous compared to what we experience at Planet RC in Indy.

Also, anyone knows that a faster motor does not a better racer make...
I can second that as a Planet RC Racer. I was one of the guys who held on to a brushed motor longer than most- I was pulling some of the 13.5's down the straights and giving up a little bit of acceleration. I went to the brushless for the sole purpose of not having to do maintenance and being able to spend more time on the track and working on my car. Furthermore, the 13.5 actually affects the handling (at least in the B4 from what myself, and 2 other very experienced drivers have noticed)- and not for the better. I will say this, in ROAR races I will enjoy trucking past 17.5's w/ my traditional brushed stocker; till then, I will use my 13.5 everywhere else. I think this mistake to go 17.5 will be very evident when large races start, where you have tweaked stock brushed motors killing 17.5's. Brushed motors have just been saved for the time being, because of the choice to make 17.5's the stock motor of choice. Sorry, dont mean to come off as hostile
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:01 PM   #27
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I have to say, at our track, the 13.5 and the 27T brushed are almost equal. Week in week out the main winners are different. I have not run a 17.5 so I will reserve comment on that. But saying that the 13.5 is like a 19T is just ridiculous compared to what we experience at Planet RC in Indy.

Also, anyone knows that a faster motor does not a better racer make...
thats what I am talkin about exactly. They are just basing all of their decision off of one class of racing and now others will suffer till they figure it out but im with you guys
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:08 PM   #28
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thats what I am talkin about exactly. They are just basing all of their decision off of one class of racing and now others will suffer till they figure it out but im with you guys
Lets start a revolt!!

In all honesty, the thing I am afraid of is with this creation of the 'superstock' in a year, and the stupid 19t/10.5t class, and now the 27t/17.5, any class other than MOD is going to be diluted. It will be really fun running w/ 5 people when there could have been 15! I may be promoting myself to 2wheel mod soon.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:10 PM   #29
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My losi xxxcr lrp/13.5 novak motor and nihm packs 4200's geared at 78/28 speedo set to highest mode i think is compared to a 19t brushed motor.it is retarded fast.but i am going to throw my gtx with a 19t motor in my B4 and see how close it really is!

Our track is like 80X100!pulling 25's.. jusy=t my .02 cents!
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:54 PM   #30
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My losi xxxcr lrp/13.5 novak motor and nihm packs 4200's geared at 78/28 speedo set to highest mode i think is compared to a 19t brushed motor.it is retarded fast.but i am going to throw my gtx with a 19t motor in my B4 and see how close it really is!

Our track is like 80X100!pulling 25's.. jusy=t my .02 cents!
Well if you gear it that high yea its gunna run like a 19T down the straight. I still have no clue why roar does what it does. At every race ive been to lately ive watch 27T and 13.5 run with each other and run the same lap times. I think that brushed is faster than 13.5 at most tracks in buggy, so the 17.5 is just gunna be slower than slow. The 13.5SS is 195 watts according to novak while the 17.5 is 130 watts. Your gunna lose a 3rd of the power so its going to be like running of 5 or even 4 cells. Fun!
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