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Old 01-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #61
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Hey Guys,

I just got back from the CRCRC Midwinter Champs. We had some of these failures there, but seem to have found a solution. Once everyone placed a #4 washer above, and below (in place of the .030" washer), no more failures accured. And there was a very massive triple there...

I think this will eliminate most issues. Also, be sure the ball stud is tight. If it becomes loose, it can break much easier.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:03 PM   #62
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I put the larger washers above and below the ball studs off the get go and I have not had any issues so far. It makes sence as it desperses the pressure over a larger area.

I have worked a lot with CF over the years on different air crafts. It is very inportant to make sure that the ball studs are tight. If one is loose it will break the CF very easily. The same is true if the ball studs are to tight, it will cause un seeable cracks in the resen that holds the CF together, which will lead to failure as well. Think of it as glass - tight but not too tight. Though the nuts are lock nuts, it is still a good idea to put a little dab of loc tite on the studs when the nuts go on.

As for the discussion on putting the extra screw in the hole for support. Yes and No. If the screw is the proper size it will help. What happens when the threads are inserted into the hole, they will assist in holding the layers of CF together during an impact, making it stronger than if the hole was left empty, but not as strong as if there was no hole at all.

On the flip side of that, if the screw is to large it will make tiny cracks in the resin, which will actually make the area weaker.

My suggestion, if any one cares, is to go to wal mart and buy a small tube of fiberglass resin. Put painters tape over the bottom of the hole and use a tooth pick to drizzle enough resin in the hole to fill it up. Place painters tape on top of the filled hole untill it dries.

That is the only way to truley make it stronger, or more solid. The hole should be prepped just a little first, to make sure the resin has something to stick to.

I am sure it will work, as it does on other CF applications that I have worked on.

Just my .02 Hopefully it helps.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:00 PM   #63
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New plates are being desinged(front and rear). It's simply too little material around a high stess point. Go with the #4 washers as a temp. fix until then. Worked well in Ohio....What up Triple T!
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:51 PM   #64
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Brian,
Thanks for the quick solder work at Columbus.


As Brian stated, #4 washers will do the job. I have been running them for a while now with no problems.

Dayton
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:30 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG RC 10T View Post
I put the larger washers above and below the ball studs off the get go and I have not had any issues so far. It makes sence as it desperses the pressure over a larger area.

I have worked a lot with CF over the years on different air crafts. It is very inportant to make sure that the ball studs are tight. If one is loose it will break the CF very easily. The same is true if the ball studs are to tight, it will cause un seeable cracks in the resen that holds the CF together, which will lead to failure as well. Think of it as glass - tight but not too tight. Though the nuts are lock nuts, it is still a good idea to put a little dab of loc tite on the studs when the nuts go on.

As for the discussion on putting the extra screw in the hole for support. Yes and No. If the screw is the proper size it will help. What happens when the threads are inserted into the hole, they will assist in holding the layers of CF together during an impact, making it stronger than if the hole was left empty, but not as strong as if there was no hole at all.

On the flip side of that, if the screw is to large it will make tiny cracks in the resin, which will actually make the area weaker.

My suggestion, if any one cares, is to go to wal mart and buy a small tube of fiberglass resin. Put painters tape over the bottom of the hole and use a tooth pick to drizzle enough resin in the hole to fill it up. Place painters tape on top of the filled hole untill it dries.

That is the only way to truley make it stronger, or more solid. The hole should be prepped just a little first, to make sure the resin has something to stick to.

I am sure it will work, as it does on other CF applications that I have worked on.

Just my .02 Hopefully it helps.
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:44 AM   #66
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Like I stated before I had large washers above and below. I don't know exactly what size a #4 is, but the washers I used where big enough to barely hang over the edges of the top plate with little to no slop around the screw. Didn't save mine from snapping from a light tap.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:07 PM   #67
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The front and rear camber links are all anchored on the carbon fiber top plate which would not allow any give or flexibility maybe thats why other 4wd have their camber links anchored on heavy plastic. Washers would definitely give it strength but nonetheless it is still a weak area. I predict after prolonged use both f/r camber link ballstud will have tendencies of loosening up and require re-tightening.

Any BJ4we owners experienced this?

Anyway just my $.02
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:56 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donovan View Post
The front and rear camber links are all anchored on the carbon fiber top plate which would not allow any give or flexibility maybe thats why other 4wd have their camber links anchored on heavy plastic. Washers would definitely give it strength but nonetheless it is still a weak area. I predict after prolonged use both f/r camber link ballstud will have tendencies of loosening up and require re-tightening.

Any BJ4we owners experienced this?

Anyway just my $.02
I ran the BJ4 and BJ4 WE for 2+ years. In that time, I never broke a top plate. I have seen several of the other cars pull out ball studs and/or break ball studs in plastic regularly... so I don't think it is a design concept problem, just might need to use washers to stabilize the part.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:01 PM   #69
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The bj's and b44's rear topplate are very different. The bj has way more meat outboard of the stud.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:45 PM   #70
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I've been running my B44 since Nov 1st. One broken arm, 3 ballcups and 1 ballstud on rear hub. If you just learn to drive you might not break so much chit. The top plate look fine and I've been on a few monster 1/8 jumps that were really hard on the car. Just don't hit chit and you'll be fine. This is by far the most durable 4wd ever!!!!!!
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:12 PM   #71
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I've actually found it to be just the inverse, The fast guys that are sponsored, that win are the ones breaking this part. The aggressive drivers.

Drivers like me, mid-packers, have yet to break one. I've broken basically the same things as you have...

And its not just me, I've seen this with the other avg. drivers not breaking the upper rear plate...




Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshu View Post
I've been running my B44 since Nov 1st. One broken arm, 3 ballcups and 1 ballstud on rear hub. If you just learn to drive you might not break so much chit. The top plate look fine and I've been on a few monster 1/8 jumps that were really hard on the car. Just don't hit chit and you'll be fine. This is by far the most durable 4wd ever!!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:56 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB FIVE View Post
how do you do that ? ca the edges. thinking about doing it to my atomic carbon shock towers.
So I have seen the others comment on CA technique and I have tried them all. So far on the B44 I have beat the crap out of this car, busted 2 rear ballcups, snapped 2 ballstuds out of the rear upper deck, and last weekend I landed hard enough to put a sweet 45 degree bend in the RR titanium turnbuckle. After all of that, still on original upper deck. Here is my technique I used on this one.

~~Use medium to thick CA (not thin).
~~Hold part vertical
~~Apply a couple drops CA to edge towards top edge
~~Let gravity carry CA down edge
~~Apply more drops to same spot until one edge is covered
~~Rotate and keep using same technique until edge is covered
~~Be careful not to ever get fingers near edges
~~Stick a piece of piano wire on edge of bench and put weight on it.
~~Carefully slide part on wire via screw hole to hang dry.
~~Use piece of paper towel to dab excess CA of bottom periodically.

Once completely dry...
~~Sand edges with 120 grit until smooth and dull.
~~Sand edges with 3M Ultrafine pad till silky smooth
~~Repeat top CA process of wet -> drip dry CA application.

Should look and feel very nice and provide lots of extra edge strength. You will see and feel the difference immediately. Here's the only example photo of my shock tower where you could see the shine reflection well. Looks and feels smooth and shiny around the entire edge in person. Photo doesn't do it justice:

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Old 02-01-2008, 09:51 PM   #73
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I did the same mod as you (the fiberglass resin one), but I used JB Weld instead of fgresin. I've hit stationary objects at full speed and the thing acted like a battering ram. Tuff. I am truly surprised I didn't break a bulkhead, chassis, or top plate... on numerous occasions.

Sooner or later the luck will run its course. But it sure does inject some longevity into the car to withstand my crusty old fingers and even feebler brain.

Cheers,

f9a


Quote:
Originally Posted by OG RC 10T View Post
I put the larger washers above and below the ball studs off the get go and I have not had any issues so far. It makes sence as it desperses the pressure over a larger area.

I have worked a lot with CF over the years on different air crafts. It is very inportant to make sure that the ball studs are tight. If one is loose it will break the CF very easily. The same is true if the ball studs are to tight, it will cause un seeable cracks in the resen that holds the CF together, which will lead to failure as well. Think of it as glass - tight but not too tight. Though the nuts are lock nuts, it is still a good idea to put a little dab of loc tite on the studs when the nuts go on.

As for the discussion on putting the extra screw in the hole for support. Yes and No. If the screw is the proper size it will help. What happens when the threads are inserted into the hole, they will assist in holding the layers of CF together during an impact, making it stronger than if the hole was left empty, but not as strong as if there was no hole at all.

On the flip side of that, if the screw is to large it will make tiny cracks in the resin, which will actually make the area weaker.

My suggestion, if any one cares, is to go to wal mart and buy a small tube of fiberglass resin. Put painters tape over the bottom of the hole and use a tooth pick to drizzle enough resin in the hole to fill it up. Place painters tape on top of the filled hole untill it dries.

That is the only way to truley make it stronger, or more solid. The hole should be prepped just a little first, to make sure the resin has something to stick to.

I am sure it will work, as it does on other CF applications that I have worked on.

Just my .02 Hopefully it helps.
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:00 PM   #74
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kenshu, why do you always post with that holier than thou attitude? I started running with this buggy the week after the last time I saw you down here at redline. Since then I've broken one front arm and one rear top plate! Bring yours down here so I can show you what this car can do. this is only my 3rd year running electric, and only one season of nitro!
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