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Old 11-28-2007, 05:42 PM   #1
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Default mamba vs novak

I want to get a brushless system for my b44 but not for sure which one to get. Is thier any differenc in novak and the mamba. Can you use lipo on both.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:54 PM   #2
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u can use lipo on both, the mamba supports 2/3s lipo, novak is 2s only i believe.

Also the mamba has built in USB port for tuning and your esc settings, when i get my rc10 i will probably go with the mamba. hope this helps your decision.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:53 PM   #3
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Do yourself a favor and read up on some of the pluses and minuses of sensored vs. sensorless designs.

I have run both and have converted all of my sensorless setups over to all sensored setups because I was tired of fighting with cogging among other minor annoyances.

I have heard lots of good out of the Traxxas setup as well. Also there is LRP to consider.

Having said all that, I used to run a Mamba 5600 in my XXX-4 and it was plenty motor for a 4wd setup. For the Novak, depending on the size of your track a 5.5 would be a good starting point.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
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@gndprx

Im not really familliar with BL.
What is cogging?
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:27 PM   #5
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cogging is when the motor hesitates. like you pull the trigger and the car stutters a bit before moving.

this can be caused by batteries that are not up to par and other issues.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:35 PM   #6
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I would get the mamba system for a 4wd buggy. The novak systems some times have trouble staying cool in a buggy. w/ the mamba you will need to remove the bullet plugs & direct solder the motor wires, they are often times the cause of the cogging. For batteries I would run a 2p 2s a123 racing saddle pack if your local track will allow lithiums. They are durable so you don't have to worry about them when you get bumped in the side. You can pull them from dewalt 36 volt packs at around $8-$10 a cell. The a123s can be discharged at an extremely high rate so cogging shouldn't be an issue. They can also be charged in 15 minutes if you wire up a charging plug in series, & one for parallel for when you race. Your best bet would be to split a 10 cell dewalt 36volt pack w/ a buddy & make a pack for each of you.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:46 PM   #7
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I run offroad with my Mamba system with Orion 3200 carbon fiber lipo packs with the Mamba 5700kv motor and never have cogging issues or any other for that matter. I never figured out why some people having cogging problems but I run 3 different Mamba setups and when I use Mamba motors I have zero issues. Been running for many months of flawless performance.

I have a little cogging running the Orion 13.5 with my Mamba but it is very little and soon even that motor won't be a problem along with any other motor.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:46 PM   #8
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wyd:

The reason you have never had a cogging issue with the Mamba is because it doesn't really have a problem. It's a figment of the imagination of some Mamba haters.

Seriously... anyone who has run a stock MM system and had it cog... only needed to get rid of the stock gold connectors on the motor.

I have also yet to see a single case of cogging and I've been running them since the day they were released. I also run an LRP system too and it's awesome. No cogging with it either.

If you put the poor little Mamba esc in a 1/8 scale with a 2000 watt Neu 4 pole motor, then yes.... there can be cogging. That's because it was never designed to run this type of motor in this type of vehicle. But that has nothing to do with a Mamba system in a 1/10 car.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:56 PM   #9
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I try to give fair information even though I do race for Castle Creation. Yes the connectors can cause a problem but so far mine are fine. We have have 4 others running them at are track for offroad and no issues. Sometimes batteries cause problems as well but I run 4200's and lipo and they both work fine for me.

Problems exist from all companies andlets face it everyone has a brand favorite or bad experiances with different companies so this is no different. All the brands out are excellent more often than not.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdoctor View Post
wyd:
The reason you have never had a cogging issue with the Mamba is because it doesn't really have a problem. It's a figment of the imagination of some Mamba haters.
It most certainly is not a figment of imagination! I certainly was not a hater when I owned Mamba Max systems either. I owned two complete systems, painted all my vehicles with cool Mamba Max lettering, etc.... I believe my opinion should be considered fair.

Starting off, I only own the best equipment money can buy and I race, I do not bash, at high desert raceplace in grand junction, co. I use Ko Propo EX-10 Helios radio w/ spektrum pro, caps, Hitec 5955 TG digital servos, I had mamba max 5700 and 7700 kv systems, used in Team Losi MF2 stadium truck, JConcepts BJ4WE, AE B4 and T4, now I am using a Sanwa Exzes Plus digital stick radio w/ spektrum pro, IB 3800 nimh batteries matched side by side, balanced every run, and further, on to running maxamps and rc common sense lipos and A123 batteries.

As you can see, by my setups, there should be absolutely no reason a mamba max should cog. I tried everything, removing the gold connectors, re positioning the antenna, receiver, buying a brand new radio even! etc... No matter what, I would notice a very slight, but noticeable and annoying hiccup, or cogging.

I lived with it for a while, but this slight hiccup that a mamba max has would cause me to throw wins. It would hiccup, and I would spin out. Or it would hiccup again, and I would hesitate ever so slightly lose milliseconds on accelerating out of a turn. Where this problem affected me the most was on acceleration, coming out of turns. It would hiccup, the rear would act un-predictable due to that, and I would either spin out, or lose milliseconds of time.

Even if the mamba max hiccups once per race, that was once too many, I finally concluded.

Thank god for the fine people at Novak. A very nice person from Novak personally helped me convert back to Novak, and all those stuttering, hiccuping issues are now completely gone. I am now racing two Novak brushless spread spectrum systems with a 5.5, 6.5, 7.5, and 13.5 motor. Once you go Novak, you will become used to the smooth throttle and brake response, and the sluggishness of the Mamba will become apparent.

If I have to compare the Mamba Max to the Novak, well the Mamba Max is like an 84 Ford Thunderbird with a clogged carburetor, and the Novak is like a Porsche with smooth powerband and high revs.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:33 PM   #11
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wyd--you use the connectors on the mamba? That's cool. I've been talking the newer drivers into using connectors so they can bash at home and switch motors at the track to race in a class. Once I started hearing about cogging issues I started to wonder if I was doing the wrong thing with the newbies. But I haven't heard any complaints yet. YET!! LOL.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:18 PM   #12
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I've not yet owned a brushless system, but from what i though was the slight cogging can be caused by the lack of a sensor system in the MM motors. I think it would make more sense that a motor with more accurate timing would be more responsive? not quite sure, any one in the motor industry wanna give us the low down?
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:29 PM   #13
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mattnin: Fair enough... I'm aware of what you are describing. I never considered this "cogging" in the common use of the term, but I guess it is related somewhat. You are the only one I know of that has described it this way, and I have seen that happen on a rare occasion. I have asked a lot of other racers and nobody has noticed it.

Curious... did you see this happen racing indoors or outside or both?

btw I believe that this glitch that you had is eliminated or greatly reduced with some software tweaking, such as dialing -exp.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattnin View Post
I lived with it for a while, but this slight hiccup that a mamba max has would cause me to throw wins. It would hiccup, and I would spin out. Or it would hiccup again, and I would hesitate ever so slightly lose milliseconds on accelerating out of a turn. Where this problem affected me the most was on acceleration, coming out of turns. It would hiccup, the rear would act un-predictable due to that, and I would either spin out, or lose milliseconds of time.
This is what I consider cogging. Hesitation or stuttering in the motor which can even lead to the motor spinning in reverse rather than forward under extreme situations. I also ran the MM system on oval and at minimum 2-3 times per race it would just lock the rear for a second and cause a spin for no reason. For oval, unpredictable is bad.

I owned 3 Mamba systems and they were all direct soldered. I am by no means a Mamba hater as described above but I was tired of hearing "there is no problem" from Castle when it was evident in every MM system that raced at our track. And for that reason more than any I run all sensored setups now.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:35 AM   #15
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There are no big surprises here. Sensored systems (LRP/Novak) are smoother than unsensored. That's just how it is at this time. I've run both plenty of times. Even a "smooth" running Mamba system is not a smooth as a sensored system.
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