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Old 11-05-2007, 06:01 PM   #1
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Default class progression.

I am still relatively new to off-road r/c racing, I started in late april or early may maybe. I raced Novice until I was winning more often than not. I moved to stock and raced there until I was winning more often than not. I have moved to mod racing now and I have a problem.

going from novice to stock I didnt slow down. I kept getting faster until I was competitive and began to win. I probably left stock too soon, maybe, but I didnt want to be the guy the others called a sand bagger by staying too long and not allowing others their time to shine.

when I moved to mod I didnt expect to win, and I still dont. but I didnt expect to actually be slower than I was in stock! a full lap no less!! I realize it just takes time and practice, which I am willing to put in, I just wasnt ready for the fact that I would be slower.

I could put my stock motors back in and be more competitive, but what would I be learning really? I mean, when I put my mod motors back again, will anything have changed?

I am sure that everyone has gone through this stage, or will. I hope. so I guess my question is... how long will a guy normally be slower in mod than he was in stock? or am I an anomoly? the people I race against are all very accomplished drivers for the most part, so I am not looking to be winning... not for quite some time. but I cannot believe I am slower, by a lap, than before.

my current plan is to stick it out. I go to the track 3-5 times a week for practice and racing. I am beginning to see some results, but I am "cheating" to do so. I have turned down the power on my radio to break myself in some. good idea, or bad? a little guidance is all I am looking for here. I dont need to be told that I suck, that isnt helpful... nor is it news to me. rofl.

I really dont want to go back to stock, not that anyone at our track would make me or has suggested that, because... at the risk of sounding conceited, there were not many in the 2 stock classes (buggy and truck) that were pushing me anymore.

thank you for your input.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:38 PM   #2
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Do whatever you feel comfortable and enjoy doing. And completely disregard other's opinion about you. You're in the hobby for your own fun, not their's,
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:46 PM   #3
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I'm guessing that you went from running stock to a hot mod motor? Going from a stock motor to a 10 turn motor is a huge jump. I'm just going to guess that you went from a stock motor to a 10 turn motor and you run on a small track. If this is the case then a 17 turn motor is probly the next best step for you. It will still teach you how to tune a motor and deliver a more controllable power band. Once you can lay down good laps with that you can move on to a hotter motor.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
I'm guessing that you went from running stock to a hot mod motor? Going from a stock motor to a 10 turn motor is a huge jump. I'm just going to guess that you went from a stock motor to a 10 turn motor and you run on a small track. If this is the case then a 17 turn motor is probly the next best step for you. It will still teach you how to tune a motor and deliver a more controllable power band. Once you can lay down good laps with that you can move on to a hotter motor.
I think youre exactly right. Stock allows you to use full throttle quite often without penality, whereas mod rarely allows you to. I would say strap in a 19t/10.5 (or a 17t) and try it again. If you still feel youre having problems, then step back down to stock until youve completely mastered it.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Lou View Post
I am still relatively new to off-road r/c racing, I started in late april or early may maybe. I raced Novice until I was winning more often than not. I moved to stock and raced there until I was winning more often than not. I have moved to mod racing now and I have a problem.

going from novice to stock I didnt slow down. I kept getting faster until I was competitive and began to win. I probably left stock too soon, maybe, but I didnt want to be the guy the others called a sand bagger by staying too long and not allowing others their time to shine.

when I moved to mod I didnt expect to win, and I still dont. but I didnt expect to actually be slower than I was in stock! a full lap no less!! I realize it just takes time and practice, which I am willing to put in, I just wasnt ready for the fact that I would be slower.

I could put my stock motors back in and be more competitive, but what would I be learning really? I mean, when I put my mod motors back again, will anything have changed?

I am sure that everyone has gone through this stage, or will. I hope. so I guess my question is... how long will a guy normally be slower in mod than he was in stock? or am I an anomoly? the people I race against are all very accomplished drivers for the most part, so I am not looking to be winning... not for quite some time. but I cannot believe I am slower, by a lap, than before.

my current plan is to stick it out. I go to the track 3-5 times a week for practice and racing. I am beginning to see some results, but I am "cheating" to do so. I have turned down the power on my radio to break myself in some. good idea, or bad? a little guidance is all I am looking for here. I dont need to be told that I suck, that isnt helpful... nor is it news to me. rofl.

I really dont want to go back to stock, not that anyone at our track would make me or has suggested that, because... at the risk of sounding conceited, there were not many in the 2 stock classes (buggy and truck) that were pushing me anymore.

thank you for your input.

I would suggest running an adequate, but not insane motor. For example, in 2wd mod, a 7.5 or 13 turn. My biggest suggest/comment... learn to use the extra motor only when "safe". Now I know that sounds overly obvious, and super simplistic... but it is the way to do it. For example, only try to run faster than stock speeds on the straight, or maybe if you can triple a jump that you can only double in stock. If you don't lose anytime from you stock laps and lines... and gain a tenth or 2 on the straight, you can/will go quicker. Only after you get the hang of that, can you really start to attack the rest of the track..
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:13 PM   #6
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It has been more then 10 years ago but I remember when some factory Losi guys showed up to some big race (NORCCA Nats maybe) and I think it was Jack Johnson that won open truck using a 7 cell battery, and stock motor. It has been along time but I remember the race was in Vegas. I remember them sweeping the first 5 spots in the A main and all of them using that same setup. The reason I brought that up was just show the point that you use whatever is going to be the fastest for you.

I agree with everyone else try, 17 or a 19 turn motor and work from there. Things like Clutch settings, tires, and setup come in focus much more with the greater speeds.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:32 AM   #7
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I appreciate the advice you all. I am running 7.5 novaks currently. I have the throttle epa at 115 currently, which is only slightly faster than stock imo. however, I only did that for the mains last sunday, so I am unsure if I will go down a little more still. when I go tomorrow I will do more testing to get my lap times closer to what they were in stock.

my cars setups are not the issue, I have a great resource to help with setups and such at my local track. it is owned by Scott Brown of Associated race team. I think it just has to do with throttle control mostly. when I go to races outside our local track (bigger tracks that is) I seem to do fairly well, even with the increased power. I recently took a 4th (out of 30) in mod truck and a 6th (out of 17) in 2wd mod. that was with 1 race in triple a mains for each class with a mechanical failure of some kind that left me in 12th for those heats.

I think the main issue is psychological in that while I dont expect to win every time, it would be nice to not be slower than I was with less motor. lol my plan is to find the throttle epa setting that will allow me to run as I did before, then increase it in slow increments while maintaining lap times until I have it maxed out once again.

your advice is sound, all of you, and I thank you for it.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:29 AM   #8
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Lou, I tried a stock (13.5 bl) for a mod race at our local track also. I qualified 3rd and finished 4th (out of about 20 racers). Our track was a bit more technical than it usually is, but it was great because i could point and shoot. Try running the stock motor in the mod race and see how you do. Are you using a Brushless 13.5 or a brushed stock motor? What gearing are you using for the stock setup? I (and my local racers) have the stock motor geared at least at 26/78 and it barely warms up in the brushless motor. If you want to continue and learn on your 7.5 try running a bunch of laps only touching the throttle. Don't go plastic to plastic, just lightly use the throttle, and dont go too fast (about 50% max speed for the 7.5, and dont lower the throttle epa, keep it maxed out) that you go out of the good lines the fast guys are using, if you do slow right down and go back the the best line for the track. Another good way a friend and I got better when we were just starting was to have a fast guy drive in front of us on the fast line of the track, but he would go at 50% his normal driving speed and we had to follow in a train, but could not pass him. This helped us with driving in traffic, keeping calm around other drivers and helped us get the fast line for the track. Let us know how you do Lou. Cheers.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:02 AM   #9
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Setup problems can sometimes be amplified when running quicker motors, so look for any signs of that and changing the setup until it feels better.

As people have said, dont jump too high in the speed increase or you will struggle to control the car. Practice and most importantly learning from it what to do to the car, or your driving style always makes you a better racer
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:10 AM   #10
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the good thing about brushless is you can get a progressively faster motor when your ready

go from 13.5t to 10.5t then 8.5 then 7.5 then 6.5 then 5.5

it should take you about at least a year to progress.

where people get into problems is they go from a 13.5t then go straight to a 5.5t, then thier next question is "how do i slow down a 5.5t"

also when you grow out of your old brushless motor you still can sell it for pretty good value like $50 pay another $30 and get the faster motor.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:10 AM   #11
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Default Not just the motor....

It is easier to go faster in stock if the other car`s are not on your backend making you drive defensive....

Stock is full of beginner`s that are willing to just pull aside for a faster car.

Mod has more skilled driver`s so they can be a big reason alone you have a more difficult time achieving the same times you get when you run stock...

Top off the fact you can be lapped by a faster car in mod , this too slow`s you down a bit..

So a big reason your a bit slower in mod is`nt you , it is the other fast car`s...

Don`t go by your final lap count so much !


Its your lap times that really say how fast you are .....

Focus on that , it is the path to victory....
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:20 AM   #12
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It is easier to go faster in stock if the other car`s are not on your backend making you drive defensive....
This is very true, you need guys on the same level of you to really enjoy stock racing. But the same skill of driving defensive can be useful for when youre in mod and youve got someone right on your back end
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:39 AM   #13
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I wouldn't be too concerned. You are going about things the right way, and besides, who says you have to have the all out hot motor for mod anyway? Run what you are comfortable with, and if you are getting better with time, then go hotter.

I did this when I started mod 4wd, I went with a 19T motor till I could get used to the speed and handling difference in offroad (originally a touring car guy) and once I felt comfortable, I went with a 12T Orion motor, but I would always come back to the 19T when I needed to just get a feel for the track. Other than the long straight, I was pretty much with everyone on the rest of the track, and the 19T quad mag actually reved pretty good that it passed a few guys using 14Ts.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:28 AM   #14
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I wouldn't be too concerned. You are going about things the right way, and besides, who says you have to have the all out hot motor for mod anyway? Run what you are comfortable with, and if you are getting better with time, then go hotter.

I did this when I started mod 4wd, I went with a 19T motor till I could get used to the speed and handling difference in offroad (originally a touring car guy) and once I felt comfortable, I went with a 12T Orion motor, but I would always come back to the 19T when I needed to just get a feel for the track. Other than the long straight, I was pretty much with everyone on the rest of the track, and the 19T quad mag actually reved pretty good that it passed a few guys using 14Ts.

The best part of mod !

you pick what works best and run with it ...

Its your decision ....

FREEEEEDOM !!!!
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:54 AM   #15
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I would say if your happywith where your epa is set, then turn it all the way up for practice, that way your practicing with more motor then you can use, then when the race comes turn your epa back down, you will feel more like you went back to stock.

Someone mentioned it before, but a lot of times the pros run a lot slower motors then what they tell you. The fastest motor on any track is the one you have to push to get around the track, not the one you have hold back with. Look at what happens at the worlds, they took a cell out to smooth out the power to make them faster around the track, the other guy mentioned running a 7cell stock motor. I would take the advice of others in this thread it seems that a 17-19 turn motor would be faster on your track then a 13 turn. But if I were you I would practice with the 13 and throw the 19 in for the race.
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