R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-01-2007, 11:11 AM   #16
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Don`t use full size cars for a example ....

It is`nt a valid comparison between the two ....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 11:15 AM   #17
Tech Master
 
johnnyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,634
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Outside of adding weight to the back of a B4
Why don't they just optimize the rear suspension for the lighter weight then?

I still think there needs to be a bit of weight for weight transfer and traction. I personally run on a loose off road track, so I find a little weight to be benificial (you can still make the car faster than you need it to be even when it is a bit heavier). Maybe on a higher bite track you can get away with a much lighter car, but I found so far that a bit of weight is good.
__________________
"Almost Live Race Coverage": www.johnnyboy.ca

.:Team Orion : JConcepts : B-Fast RC:.
johnnyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 11:16 AM   #18
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,932
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

Only in that R/C we have no power defecit. Less weight to move and less weight to change direction. The benefit you are probably feeling with added weight is stability and ease of driving.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 11:23 AM   #19
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Only in that R/C we have no power defecit. Less weight to move and less weight to change direction. The benefit you are probably feeling with added weight is stability and ease of driving.
correct ....

all due to extra traction the weight gives....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 11:35 AM   #20
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,932
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

and slower weight transfer, which could be compensated for with different damping. There is no arguing that more downward force imparted on the tires creates traction (I'll give you that) but it also introduces the need to control more weight. This is why F1 uses aerodynamics so heavily (so does 1/12 scale, those guys don't add weight either). The suspension settings and possibility of better tire setups are there to take advantage of the lighter weight imo.

On the B4 question, that's up to us. The added weight thing came from the setups that everyone used at the last world's which was on a track that was nothing like the majority of tracks in the US. We tried it over here and liked. Now I think everyone just "does it" because they are told to by faster drivers. I ran a Novak velociti motor in mine and didn't add the weight because my motor was already 1oz heavier than the brushed stuff.

Fwiw, my current buggy with a Orion 4800 Lipo and Novak GTB is .9oz over the legal limit but I know the setups that most guys run in this model are optimized for cars that weigh 4-6oz more.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 11:44 AM   #21
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
and slower weight transfer, which could be compensated for with different damping. There is no arguing that more downward force imparted on the tires creates traction (I'll give you that) but it also introduces the need to control more weight. This is why F1 uses aerodynamics so heavily (so does 1/12 scale, those guys don't add weight either). The suspension settings and possibility of better tire setups are there to take advantage of the lighter weight imo.

On the B4 question, that's up to us. The added weight thing came from the setups that everyone used at the last world's which was on a track that was nothing like the majority of tracks in the US. We tried it over here and liked. Now I think everyone just "does it" because they are told to by faster drivers. I ran a Novak velociti motor in mine and didn't add the weight because my motor was already 1oz heavier than the brushed stuff.

Fwiw, my current buggy with a Orion 4800 Lipo and Novak GTB is .9oz over the legal limit but I know the setups that most guys run in this model are optimized for cars that weigh 4-6oz more.

Try both and then come back and share your results....

My opinion ..
The car was design for a certain amount of weight ....

The car performance is best when you use that weight...


If under weight really had a advantage it would show in the lap times ...


I can not show you this so call advantage of less weight even after months of testing...
Its almost a wash , but weight gets the nod in the end....

I now at least know for myself the other car that is underweight really does not have a advantage at all....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 12:05 PM   #22
Tech Regular
 
cfwdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 288
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

If you're running on blown out 1/8th scale tracks, light weight sucks.

Smooth 10th scale track light weight would be nice.

Power is a non-issue. I'm running a Novak 5.5 with about 7-8 oz added to it. Handles those potholes and ruts awesome.

I'd rather weight up, motor up, and adjust my suspension for the weight.

Without the wieght, I just couldn't lay down the power due to no traction. (that went for Nimhs too, and I added weight then too)

crap, I'm actually agreeing with George. Maybe cuz we both run on similar tracks?
cfwdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 12:11 PM   #23
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

When running under weight ..


step down to a softer rear spring, lower the ride height ft & back, adjust the slipper looser quite a bit....


do this and the car will perform very good....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry

Last edited by Wild Cherry; 03-31-2008 at 11:11 PM.
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 12:59 PM   #24
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,932
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

You may be right, but if his car is spinning due to there not being enough traction then you are not too light, you are over powered. lol Try a 7.5 motor. Wild Cherry is on the right track with his setup suggestions for lighter weight but there is a ways to go. Like I said before, It's not like my cars are under weight. They are both at the legal weight.

It will all be irrelevant when canned batteries go away forever pretty soon here.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."

In mind and body, we're all heading towards old age. It is slower to go by bike.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 01:34 PM   #25
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,570
Trader Rating: 26 (96%+)
Default

lol, I have 5 words for all of you guys who don't like lighter cars. Learn to setup a car. Here is why running a lighter car is better. You can take turns with more speed, you can set your car up to be more agressive in the turns, and your car will be more durable. The only reason you don't like a lighter car is because it is more difficult to setup since it responds more to changes.
party_wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 01:35 PM   #26
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Dave,
Please note my signature....

You are only a little less lite , not as much of a difference as a result....
Would not even suggest a spring change on the rear...

I`v took the weight down even more...

Just 1 oz on the back bulkhead & a Orion carbon 3200......
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 01:44 PM   #27
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
lol, I have 5 words for all of you guys who don't like lighter cars. Learn to setup a car. Here is why running a lighter car is better. You can take turns with more speed, you can set your car up to be more agressive in the turns, and your car will be more durable. The only reason you don't like a lighter car is because it is more difficult to setup since it responds more to changes.
You saying with weight it easier to tune the car ?
or
Without weight it takes more effort to tune the car ?

Not trying hard to diss U .

I only wish to appreciate your opinion....

Easier to drive = faster
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 01:53 PM   #28
Tech Elite
 
K_King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,196
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to K_King
Default

Weight adds stability, thats probably the most important thing.
__________________
TLR - Spektrum - Pro-Line - Team Orion - Stickit1 - Schelle
K_King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 02:03 PM   #29
Tech Fanatic
 
Scrubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 834
Default

There are lots of problems running a lighter battery in traction limited off-road.

Some of the issues is correcting the weight transfer issue as previously stated, also reducing the power to weight ratio like mentioned. Another problem is the reduced weight reduces the size of the contact patch between the tires and the ground, which would need a softer compound tire and softer inserts, or the weight added back on.
Scrubb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 02:29 PM   #30
TFR
Tech Master
 
TFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,767
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy View Post
I made up a bunch of these out of 304 Stainless Steel, grinded and de-burred the edges and put a sweet finish on them. Made them at 4.5 oz (you can trim some off to fine tune the weight to your liking). They are the same footprint of the Orion LiPo packs. Keeps the weight where it is supposed to be, in the battery box (and keeps the CG nice and low)! Only have a couple left, but if there is more interest I will make more. $14.00 shipped.
Would you be able to make one to fit the Orion 3200 where the stickers go? It's around 50mm x 110mm.
__________________
Muchmore l AHRP l Xenon l Futaba
TFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We need a "heavy" lipo, who is going to step up? or8ital Electric On-Road 35 01-16-2008 10:17 PM
b4 to nose heavy ? Born2Lose Electric Off-Road 19 04-01-2007 03:54 AM
[FT/WTB] TC3 Heavy Duty One Way squarehead R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 0 02-15-2007 07:40 PM
Would the OS turbo have enough HP for a heavy car(like the hpi r40?) fastharry™ Nitro On-Road 35 08-08-2003 08:28 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:38 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net