B4 -versus- XXX Kinwald
 

In your opinion what's a better buggy? I have owned a B3 FT for a while and I love it.

I like Associated cars much better than Team Losi cars. The B4 also just won the Castic Classis. And I like the way the car looks much better. Your also going to be one of the few people at your track with a B4. Which is always fun. But that may also mean that your track doesn't carry replacement parts and if you have any trouble with the car it will make it harder to get help. But I would rather get a better car. Just my 2 cents.

so far the b4 has been able to take a good ole beating and hasnt broke anything but 4 ball cups.........so a very well built car

I have a normal XXX and that is one tough buggy. I have never broke a part. Don't get the idea that I baby my cars either. I jump them, make them do cartwheels, and then some. I upgraded to some titanium turnbuckles just incase. Actually I thought the XXX was going to follow in the footsteps of my XXX-T and break a turnbuckle every other day. But that wasn't the case. I'd recommend this buggy to anyone who wants a good racing rc. It jumps amazingly well and is even more fun to drive. It has my vote over the B4.

The B4 seems to be cheap enough at the moment from what i have seen. If i had the choice i would get one, but mainly because i dont want what everyone has. Its far more satisfying to do it as an outsider, and do your own setups.

But yeah, i saw a price for the B4 on tower, this seemed HELLA cheap! is this the case or is that about the norm price?

i got my b4 for 180 from my local hobby shop i'm not paying what they want on line :D

I'm building my B4 right now, after owning numerous XXX cars, I say this buggy is the winner, losi needs to come out with something new to combat this racing design.

BTW, it also seems like it will be a much stronger car than the XXX, just another thing to think of.

Alot stronger?Have you ran the car yet?Watch out for the front tower,front spindles and more.
Nice car yes but STILL not as stable as the losi.
I can run the fastest SINGLE lap with the B4.But I can run more consistanly with ALOT of fast laps with the XXX.
A huge improvement over the B3.But still on the edge a bit.
The Losi is more forgiving plain and simple.
Both very nice cars.I wouldnt say there is a better.It will depend on the track and the driver.I dont see anyone going wrong with either car from my experience with both cars.
Les

Keep in mind that Associated Electronics is failing.

I have driven one actually, and it was actually very smooth from what I felt. I have always liked how AE cars are on the edge a little more than losi cars, because I have a smooth driving style, I need a car to add the snap for me, Losi is just too smooth for my style. I still have broken a lot of parts on my XXX's, and have yet to see a lot of broken parts on the B4's in general.

I would like to know what your breaking on XXX's besides maybe a rear arm mount.I have my race cars and then my play cars and my play cars go through HELL.
I dont any problems once the aluminum rear arm mount is installed.
Associated B4 so far in 5 weeks.
3 sets of front spindles,front shock tower,front arm,rear arm,rear arm mount.
I have ran losi xxx's for 2 years and havent broken that much stuff I dont think.lol
P.S.The B4 was something to catch up to the XXX.The XXX may have lost the cactus but who won the losi race?
Look at the B4 and what does it remind you of almost to the T.Wow look at those rear hubs expecially.Those look familiar.
Les
P.S.I like the B4.Nice car but the losi is still more consistant,more stable and more forgiving than the b4.Do I fill faster with a B4?Yes.But after lap times I find that it's just 2-3 laps faster not over the whole race.
Les

What??? :weird: Failing at what???

Yea really, failing at what?

i'm not really impressed by the b4 or any other AE vehicle
just look at the semi-tub chassis i wonder where they got that idea from? Losi?

But I still don't get how they keep failing if they keep winning? Lot's of companys copy other company's. The T1R probably got the semi tub idea because it was successful in other cars too. Look at all those 2 belt tourers out there, they all have practically the same drive chain design. And that reamer by Hudy, lots of companies took that idea too. Not to mention that all those shaft cars that are coming out now are using almost the same design for the drive chain as the TC3 uses. So what's wrong if Associated took one idea from another company, why does that make their car's inferior :confused: ?

So, is what your saying is who ever had the original design will always be better in any case? Thats pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

Personally the B4 reminds me nothing of the XXX. Jeepracer- My memory might be off, but wasn't the RC10 built on a tub chassis? Oh yeah, it was, Losi did release the JR2 with a tub chassis, but RC10 was out first... I have never said Losi copied Associated's tub chassis because a statement like that would come from an idiot. TexRacer- Maybe you havent been around in the hobby long enough to remember the B2, and what it's hub carriers looked like, then the B3, now the B4, they all look like hub carriers to me, Losi did not revolutionize them.

Why do you people try to tear apart everything that comes out, where would the hobby be if companies didn't take eachother's designs and improve upon them, we would propably all still be driving the Tamiya Super Hornet or something.

Good point Randman. Who cares where the design ideas came from, the point is which car is faster, tougher, handles better, etc... isn't it.

They both have such great capability on the track, that I dont see how either one can get bombed on about design. Let's all get RC10's, with outdated motors and see how much fun we'll have compared to what we have now.

Ya know Randman, I would be up for that. Call me crazy but I kind of miss the old days of racing. Do you remeber how many variations of a RC10 you would see at the track on any given day? I had mine loaded with Hot Trick stuff, used oven cleaner on the gold chassis to give it a "silver" look and the MIP tranny I had, man that thing was slick!! I used a lot less tires back then too :)

If you could still buy the origional RC10's I would do that for sure!!!!! :D :D :D :D :tire: !!! That would be so much fun. There could be a huge race and the only chassis you were allowed to use was the origional RC10. Unfortunaitly, I wasn't interested in this hobby back in those good-ol-days :cry: :cry: :cry: .

Don't get me wrong, I loved racing back then, but imagine if there was a XXX or B4 on the track at that time, it would blow everything away. We have evolved into the technically advanced cars that we have today, and I wouldn't go back.

hey,
take back what i said earlier, just got to drive a b4 the other day and i have to say i was very impressed i can't wait till the truck version comes out

So you bombed on a car you never even drove, that's pretty wrong.

I haven't driven the B4 but there's something about it's shape that just annoys me. I dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

I like the XXX more. They just seem lighter and more nimble not to mention sleeker. But then again, I am biased!:lol: :D :p

I think I'll wait until I drive both of them one after the other before I make any further comments.

Randman.Actually been in this for 13 yrs now.
The B4 Hub Carrier is NOT the same as the B2 or B3.It's IDENTICAL to the XX series hub carrier.Look at the 2.I know this cause the designer of the car is a good friend.They have been using Losi XX not XXX but XX hub carriers on the T3 and the B3 to make the car WIDER.The B4 is a nice car like I said.I can run a faster SINGLE lap with it.But consistancy is where it's at and this car is just a more stable B3.It's still on the edge and aggressive.I like this but I dont need 2-3 fast laps.I need 11-14 consistant laps to equal out to a faster time.The Losi is More Consistant,more forgiving and simply handles rough spots easier.
Sorry XXX buggy but the B3 and B4 are lighter in Kit for than a XXX is.But due to this it gets thrown around alot on rough tracks.
On a smooth track its going to come down to 1 thing.
!!! DRIVER !!! ..
Plus I drove a Golden Tub Car the other day and won sportsman with it.This car can STILL compete but it wont be AS fast per lap overall.
Losi actually came out with the 1st tub chassis in composite material.
Guys dont know a car till you drive it.
Both nice cars but due to stability,cosistancy and Driving style I like the losi best.
Les
Les

I HAVE had the original RC10 and its truck counterpart... and have raced AE since the beginning. When the Losi XX-TCR came out years ago... i bought one just to see "what i was missing". I liked the truck design and its adjustability... but it was too smooth for me in comparison to the AE... even back then. I am what you would call an "agressive driver" and prefer a car that gives me response when i want it. I drove that Losi for two weeks... and sold it. Since then i have bought a Losi XX-4 worlds edition when it came out. Im sorry, but that machine had offroad fourwheelin HANDS DOWN! No Yok i EVER drove could touch that thing. Masami won the worlds with it because he is a robot, and can beat 90% of drivers with his feet!! :lol: Other than that... i sold offroad in 99 and went TC. Two weeks ago i purchased a B4. Assembling the car i was disappointed in the steering knuckles... soft material it seems. But the rest of the car seems well thought out. I think it comes down to driver preference. I do have a sponsored driver friend of mine, that was AE and went to Losi. He is agressive like i am... and has a hard time keeping his XXX together for a whole race. Come to think of it... the only Roar National titles he has gotten was when he was driving AE. (three time winner at the Winterchamps...stock truck) Last year at the mod nats... with the Losi he was in the friggin E mains, both mod and stock. Darn good driver, darn good chassis... bad together. I guess im just saying it comes down to driver preference. If it likes to be driven smooth to be consistent and fast... it belongs in the hands of a "cautious" and consistent driver. Watch Mark Pavidis next time at a big race... he drives with his nads in the "seat" next to him... they are too big for his pants! :lol: Hes agressive and drives hard, and compliments AE products well. They are agressive and "edgy" designs... and need drivers that are similar. Brian Kinwald and Matt Francis sure made that XXX-S look SUPER smooooth in mod TC at the Snowbirds this year. Ultra clean lines with well defined apexes in their driving. Cutting mid to low 10 second laps even at the end of the race! Must be nice having that kinda sponsorship!! Anyways... just thought i would add my .02.
- Dave

I am not dissing the XXX's design in any way, I have owned them, and raced them, thing is the car is just too smooth for me. I ended up going with the old old XX arms, with 'cr' hub carriers to give the car a little snappier feel, and I still couldn't handle how smooth it was, I pulled my XX Kinwald Edition back out and was winning with it the first night, because it was a snappier handling car.

I just finished building my B4, and I think this is going to be the car I have been waiting for, I even ordered the inline steering axles, and 30 degree castor blocks which should give it a ton more steering. I can't handle a smooth car, I need something snappy as hell, and ultra responsive to the slightest touch.

I am sure I could take out a gold chassis RC10 and win the sportsman class too, but that's a sportsman class, and I am a expert mod racer, where I would get blown away if I were to drive that car.

Basically, either car is a good choice, it's purely driver preference.

I used to have an RC10 truck with the alluminum tub chassis and it was a tank!!.

The B4 has rubber sealed bearings in the tranny...does it have rubber sealed bearings in the rear hubs and the front wheels too?:smile:

Indistructible B4???
 

I've been skimming through these posts, and I just have to wonder what kinds of B4's they're sending up to Canada. They must be sending us junk, because I've seen defective chassis that call for the addition of epoxy in the rear corners, tons of broken shock towers (both front & rear), broken spindles, broken spindle carriers. Very disapointing.

If you're gonna buy an RC10, buy a B3. It's a lot stronger. AE's really taken a step in the wrong direction. It's sad when a Losi buggy has a shorter list of broken parts.

Got to go with the XXX....

B4 looks like a Nice car tho..

Again, CoryD, if you are going to post, please keep your facts in order. Any "defective chassis that call for the addition of epoxy in the rear corners" is something that YOU have brought to this forum....not Team Associated. We have not had the numerous problems you have been having.

what u guys need is a real lesson on how AE got the designs for all thier cars ;)
its true u know u can prove it
Gil Losi or Gil losi Jr i cant remeber which one. worked for AE and designed their first 3 cars he later quite and made his own company (losi) everything losi releses a new car AE releases one with a lot of similariteis changed just tenough so it isnt a total copy put a B4 and XXX side by side and u wil notice that every great part on th XXX is on the B4 but every average and not so great part is slightly changed on the B4 so really if u think about it AE does get their ideas from Losi and ya how i know this i know a few losi team drivers and they have old original AE destructions from the first couple cars and it says who they are designed by so if u ever happen to come across an old original set of AE destruction manuals check who the cars designed by ;) and i know 4 a fact most ppl arent gonna beleive this but think about it its true

Well, first of all, it's only PART true....

A bit of trivia....RC10L...the 'L' stands for Losi. BUT, that's only in the Pan car! Everything AFTER the pan car Losi had nothing to do with....including ALL the off-road vehicles.

So, teamlosi4life, your comment is only partially true. AE did have the FIRST off-road vehicle of it's type.