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Old 08-12-2007, 02:26 PM   #61
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the kit was a limited edition re run. they are still going to produce parts for it for some time to come. i don't know why everything has to be made to be what it isn't.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:35 PM   #62
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the kit was a limited edition re run. they are still going to produce parts for it for some time to come. i don't know why everything has to be made to be what it isn't.
Because you have just tuned in to the gossip channel.
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:48 PM   #63
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XFactory? I'm not sure if they are a reliable source for TL/Horizon info. When I raced for TeamLosi after the Horizon deal, most of the team guys didn't know what was happening next. At least anyone not VERY high up on the team. I would assume XFactory will be able to buy parts in bulk, as long as the molds are available, but that doesn't guarantee much.

I think basically what will happen is they will sell whatever continues to sell well, discontinue what doesn't.

Simple math.




This whole thing is funny, it is lind of like how people complain about walmart, but everyone seems to be there when you go?
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:22 AM   #64
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It seems to me that the riggors/trials/tribulations of racing make for better design work for basher cars. I would imagine even the Chev's, Ford's, Dodge's, etc... gleaned a little design work from their race programs. And I agree if the top brands did just a little National advertizing, like the full scale companies do. I think the racing programs would flourish. I know its not apples to oranges, but just running adds in the industry specific mags will not bring in new blood.

If Horizion does abandon their race program because of a few dollars, it will come back to haunt them some how. And jumping back into something like racing, is twice as expensive, and takes much longer to re-establish.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:16 PM   #65
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I have been to some major events where manufacturers spent hundreds of thousands to compete. Shipping tires alone can be thousands and thousands of dollars! Never mind air fair, all the A team guys want new cars for major events, hotel rooms for 10-12 guys, sometimes more.

Then there is the bar tabs, destroyed rental vehicles, lap dances, this stuff adds up and we have to be realistic about some companies preferring to skip the racing and just hit the bars and mens clubs!

All while the RTR's fly off the hobby store and Mail order shelves!





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Old 08-16-2007, 09:59 AM   #66
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I have been assured by people who should know at Losi and Horizon that xx-4 parts will be around for the forseeable future. IMHO, there are too many xx-4s running around in Europe and Australia for them to stop making parts. Parts = profits, as these molds are long since paid for. The molds have been shipped to China, and cranking out parts is really cheap.

Everything in an X Factory Kit is made in the USA. We even use American-made nuts & bolts, which costs us over $2.00 extra per Kit, but we just won't use the junk from China. Just about everything from Losi and AE is made there now. Have you looked closely at a B4 top shaft, idler gear, or diff gear lately? (We've been looking at them very closely...)

The part that's the problem with the xx-4 is the chassis. It's an expensive and complicated mold and it's just worn out. That's the reason the kit was discontinued in the first place. They spent considerable money re-furbishing it and felt it could run about 1,000 parts. It actually was not profitable (cost them several dollars/part), but Pops wanted to do it so it was done.

Now the chassis mold can't be patched up again -- it needs to be replaced. 1/10 off-road 4WD amounts to about 0.1% of the R/C market world-wide and Horizon does not want to spend about $5.00 for every projected sale to make more kits of a 10-year old car. We wouldn't either.

But the parts molds are all still in good shape, so making more parts is both cheap and profitable. I think as long as there's demand, they'll do it. As has been pointed out several times on this thread, Horizon will do what it takes to make money.

We will continue to make and sell the X - 5 Squared Conversion. There was no increase in price when we spent many thousands to improve this product and we'll be making them for many years. So, if you like your great-handling xx-4, the thing to do is get an X - 5, which replaces the one part Losi doesn't make any more and makes you faster too.

On everything but the very smoothest tracks (Albuquerque, for example) the X - 5 is still the fastest car in the world. Brian Kinwald and Ellis Stafford agree -- each of them voluntarily left Losi to run our cars and they both can be sponsored by anybody...

Last edited by YoungChazz; 08-16-2007 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:23 AM   #67
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On a second front, R/C needs to follow the NASCAR example of outside corporate sponsorship, both of the whole thing (Nextel Cup) and the individual teams (Home Depot, UPS, etc.).

Several years ago I wrote at length on a forum frequented by the ROAR peeps that it's my opinion this should be Job One for them. R/C racing is incredibly telegenic: 5 minutes of action followed by 2 minutes for commercials. Certainly we should be able to find a half hour per week at 2AM on the Speed Channel. All the cable networks are desperate for programming.

Why can't ROAR put together a series of races leading to a Championship, Nextel Cup style? Start out with 20 races around the country with a goal of 40 in three years. Every track would want one. Racers would flock to the events with the chance to run against the pros. Next thing you know, we might even have spectators!

We'd have to run it for a year or two without TV because they need to have assurance that there will be a feed to occupy the time slot every week. (I'm not talking live, only on tape, at least to start.)

The various teams would committ certain drivers to certain events in advance, and we'd set up personal appearances at various businesses. Hobby stores to start with, then at places that sell the producet of the various sponsors. I can see Brian Kinwald at a grocery store autographing 12-packs of Pepsi if they sponsor X Factory.

But it's the TV exposure that attracts Viagra. You have to talk to corporate sponsors in terms of millions of exposures. What's the cost/million? Right now, for R/C in general, the number of exposures approaches zero. The only exposure we have is in the R/C press, and that's preaching to the choir, so Tide isn't interested.

Unfortunately, neither is ROAR. They actually became angry when I suggested they are in the best position and have the most to gain from taking the lead in this. Right now, at National events, if a reporter might come around, he can't get a press kit explaining what's going on because the organizors (ROAR) have never produced one.

Does anybody even call the local newspaper, radio, or TV stations to even tell them there's a National event going on? Of course not. Let a reporter show up at your local community college football game and he'll be offered a spot in the press box and given a full-color brochure and sideline passes.

So, for the forseeable future, we manufacturers are going to have to keep on spending thousands (You're right, Andy, it costs thousands to send a Team to each major event.) to race and hope people keep buying our products. Companies like Horizon, who sell zillions of planes, RTRs, and on-road stuff are going to say, "Who need to race?"
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:56 AM   #68
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Rc Racing will never draw major corporate sponsorship because it is a participant driven sport versus a spectator driven sport and we will never have the numbers to attract those kinds of marketing dollars.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:56 PM   #69
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Unfortunately, both these last two posts are right on the money. ROAR is like the cricket, as long as it's sunny there's no work to do. But what about when ALL the manufacturers decide to make ONLY high volume bashers to sell in the WalMarts? We'll be right back to where we were in the early 80's. The only racers will be people who can make their own stuff, or people who can afford very high dollar low volume kits (somebody making them in a garage machine shop at about 3 a Month).
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:05 PM   #70
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Appreciate this is not the right thread to be talking about how to market R/C (maybe we need a dedicated thread?), but never-the-less, the ball is rolling...

I like where Chazz is coming from, but I also appreciate JackSmash comment. Sure, R/C is participant driven, but it is also spectator friendly. The problem is that this is very rarely nurtured.

In Australia, some of the clubs and club reps have become very adept at PR and for most national events, we can attract local newspapers and TV news crews. For the 1/10th gas worlds, Australia's leading motoring magazine ran a huge feature on the event. About four pages in the magazine. Tremendous publicity and hugely valuable. Definitely the sort of exposure that would appeal to the corporate marketers.

Another important point is that our sport is so inaccessible from a spectator perspective. Most of the time our race tracks are tucked away in sporting reserves or parks with zero visibility. Combine this with the lack of promotion and PR, and we're the best kept sporting secret around!

One thing I do know for sure is that whenever R/C racing is thrust into the public arena (eg a race held in a public place such as a shopping centre or car show), it creates huge public interest and attracts a great crowd. Again, the sort of thing that appeals to corporate marketers.

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Old 08-16-2007, 06:18 PM   #71
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Our local club is lucky, our carpet track is inside one of the local malls so we get tons of exposer to the public.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:59 AM   #72
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[QUOTE=YoungChazz;3586794] Have you looked closely at a B4 top shaft, idler gear, or diff gear lately? (We've been looking at them very closely...)
QUOTE]


Yes!


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Old 08-17-2007, 04:33 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.D.Jim View Post
XFactory? I'm not sure if they are a reliable source for TL/Horizon info.
Quote:
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I have been assured by people who should know at Losi and Horizon that xx-4 parts will be around for the forseeable future.
HAH!
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:45 AM   #74
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Chazz, well said.
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Old 08-18-2007, 07:20 PM   #75
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Ok, the thing to consider is this...

RC Racing is far to safe for spectators to take a real interest in. They are willing to watch if they happen by and spot an event from the road. But, after they watch 10 or maybe 20 minutes at the most, they have seen all there is to see.

This is taking into account that the manufacturers have not made their drivers "Famous", or "celebrity". Which, is the only other way to generate public interest.

People want to see crashes, the possiblity of an injury(although this will be debated over and over) or even death. Otherwise NASCAR and others wouldn't play all the crashes, spins and altercations in EVERY commercial. Marketers know this thru human marketing development, it is an exact science and seriously studied for best sales potential.
If it were not true, "John Q Public" wouldn't slow down at traffic accidents to look, he would not likely watch the races very much if there was NO danger either.

Since RC will never be THAT dangerous, the best result will be thru driver celebrity status. They need to be in the spotlight more, TV, magazines, paper, etc. Exposure and fame gives the spectator someone to root for, or more likely root against. Since it is also proven people are more concerned at times with who they hate, then who they like. Ever heard someone say, "Anyone but Gordon can win".
The manufacturers need to play on the publicity of the drivers, the product they use will sell well, but they are more concerned with the product being the focus and nto very good at sharing the limelight. I think they mostly really believe someone like Cavalieri couldn't win with anything other then their car, but since he DID win with both, we all know that is not the case.

That said:
The main problem with RC advertising, the manufacturers, unfortunately, are largely happy with where things are, they are making money soaking the same 3-4,000 "Racers", with small revisions, that use new names, while developing the real money makers, RTR's.

Bottom line, once racing slows WAY down, then RTR sales are affected, they will change the way they do things.....But ONLY then.

Imo

Sorry for the long post, . Racing 23+ years has left alot on my mind, LOL.

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