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Old 08-08-2007, 04:31 PM   #61
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WoW, there are many opinions so far. many different opinions. i didnt expect this thread to take off so well.

Ok, so, here are a few questions that can sortof organize this thread:

1. what age group do we really want in this hobby? we know young children are limited by thier parents and money, also with school and transportation, but what age group should we direct ( advertising? ) to?

2. How do we advertise and encourage development and consistant participation in this hobby?

3. how do we make this a more affordable hobby without making everyone in upper classes losing out in technological advancments? (limitating everyone )

4. how do we keep people from bieng discouraged from our hobby?

5. and finaly, how do we get them hooked? how do we make r/c more fun than a ps3? how do we make it work every penny?

just some general questions to answer, and with the answers maybe we could advertise r/c.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by MADMAN23 View Post
eletric is not dieing .. just look at the eletric forum and the nitro ... and you see how many people looking at each forum...

At my track

The nitro turn out is probably 2 times what electric is...Maybe not where you live, but there it is compared to what it used to be

Its still AWSOME and I will continue to blow money on racing lol, But if I look at photos of like 05 and 04 there was TONS of people racing there
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:40 PM   #63
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at the track the price of a rtr rc10b4 and i guess a pack and a charger is all you need to run. all new people to the hobby use this car at the track i go to it seems, unless they know what they want already.


Practice fees should be your next expense.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:52 PM   #64
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every now and then there is a Magazine Build Kit. i.e every 2 weeks, there is a new part that comes with the magazine. one week arms, next week body, next week tires etc. and after 52 weeks the guy pays triple the price for the kit but has a kit. when those promotion happens we usually see an increse in numbers.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:02 PM   #65
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1. what age group do we really want in this hobby? we know young children are limited by thier parents and money, also with school and transportation, but what age group should we direct ( advertising? ) to?
I'd target 18-65. I know that's a wide age group, but in other words, people with spending money. Let these people bring in their kids

2. How do we advertise and encourage development and consistant participation in this hobby?
Demonstrations where the target audience is (race/car people with disposable income): local full size race tracks, local car shows, etc.

3. how do we make this a more affordable hobby without making everyone in upper classes losing out in technological advancments? (limitating everyone )
Distinguish between "world class RC" and "Club level RC". Your local dirt track racer doesn't care about NASCAR rules and regulations, why do we local club racers worry about ROAR regulations?

4. how do we keep people from bieng discouraged from our hobby?
Create classes that aren't money pits, sp people whose only desire is fun aren't racing against people that will spend as much money as they please to cut 0.1 sec off their lap times.

5. and finaly, how do we get them hooked? how do we make r/c more fun than a ps3? how do we make it work every penny?
I don't think our target audience is the PS3 crowd. The target audience is that person that races go karts, or is a race fan, or someone that tinkers with motorcycles or snowmobiles, etc.

just some general questions to answer, and with the answers maybe we could advertise r/c.

My 2 cents
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:03 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by RB FIVE View Post
at the track the price of a rtr rc10b4 and i guess a pack and a charger is all you need to run. all new people to the hobby use this car at the track i go to it seems, unless they know what they want already.


Practice fees should be your next expense.
You in all likelihood will need a few other things. A stock motor ($32), as the RTR motor is illegal unless you run in Mod. Although I allow any motor in Novice. Then a couple pinions ($3.70 each), as the stock gear is way over, I've seen them fry the first day. Then a set of tires ($40 approx. with wheels) that will work on the track you are running. Then I'd get a couple sport packs ($30-40). And last I'd buy a good solder iron and Deans plugs ($30 approx. for iron and a couple sets of plugs) as those Tamiya plugs will cause you problems.
As you get better you can upgrade your stuff. I'd start with the servo and the speed control.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:31 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by K_King View Post
Whats with you and Turbo 35s? I know of ONE person who owns one and he owns a battery company.

Get off it already.
Same here and he also uses a pit bull.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:32 PM   #68
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Perhaps the rules of RCTech need to be changed to suit my needs just like you feel the ROAR's rules need to be changed to suit yours.
Can you explain reasonably how a desire to get lipo legalized through ROAR affects you? You obviously feel NiMH is just fine for you - others don't agree. How does legalizing it change ANYTHING for you? You'd still run your trusty old packs right?

How strongly did you respond against forcing everyone to go to 5 cells in comparison?
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #69
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Can you explain reasonably how a desire to get lipo legalized through ROAR affects you? You obviously feel NiMH is just fine for you - others don't agree. How does legalizing it change ANYTHING for you? You'd still run your trusty old packs right?
Does it affect me? no, does it affect racing and the cost of new people entering the hobby, yes. If more RTR kits had lipo cutoff speed controls and the basic lipo batteries were not 3 times as much as basic Nimh batteries, then lipo would be better for the hobby and racing.

Also just legalizing all lipo batteries without strict rules, includes legalizing the older technology Lipo batteries that catch fire. Now you can argue that nobody runs the older batteries anymore, but at the same time I can point out that Lipo supporters themselves say the batteries last for years with like new performance, so where did all the older unsafe batteries go? Which is it? Do they last a long time or are racers replacing them as soon as newer style cells come out just like the Nimh guys? Since there is very little manufacturer information on the lipo cells, how would you tell the difference between the older style and the newer style?

The Orion packs are great, except for there price, they would be great to legalize. But Craps will tell you that todays 8000mah lipo offered by companies such as maxamps are safe. But the cells are not identified (except a plain self adhesive label on outer shrink wrap on the pack) just like the older dangerous ones were not. There is no way to tell the high quality cells from the low quality cells. (i.e everybody knows the Intellect Bros. 4200 Nimh cell is low quality, everybody knows the Kokam cell in the Orion packs are great quailty, does everybody know that Kokam makes lower quality cells as well?). Legalizing the quality cells is of upmost importance for the hobby and ROAR, how do you do it without legalizing the older unsafe cells?


Quote:
How strongly did you respond against forcing everyone to go to 5 cells in comparison?
I suggested multiple options, all of which would have a lipo freindly future...

1. don't go down to 5 cell in off-road
2. have a 3.7 volt stock class, 3.7 volt amateur modified class, and a 7.4 volt pro modified class
3. just run slower motors
4. mandate speed controls to put out 6 volts maximum to the motor regardless of input voltage.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:10 PM   #70
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Eh, while a single battery may be more expensive. You only need 1 battery for the car for an entire race. You don't need 2 or more sets of batteries.

ROAR can do the same approval system that they currently use for NiMH and NiCD cells. They approve the companies and brands that meet necessary safety regulations for each cell that is submitted to them for approval. In other words, old cells from the past, do not necessarily have to be approved.

Paul
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
Does it affect me? no, does it affect racing and the cost of new people entering the hobby, yes. If more RTR kits had lipo cutoff speed controls and the basic lipo batteries were not 3 times as much as basic Nimh batteries, then lipo would be better for the hobby and racing.
Actually it will no effect the cost of entry other than giving another option. Legalization of lipo will not cause the end of NiMH, only give the ability to run it. You can't say it will raise the price of entry if the same product you currently support is still available. Plus, prices may fall on both technologies as they are now competing against each other directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
Also just legalizing all lipo batteries without strict rules, includes legalizing the older technology Lipo batteries that catch fire. Now you can argue that nobody runs the older batteries anymore, but at the same time I can point out that Lipo supporters themselves say the batteries last for years with like new performance, so where did all the older unsafe batteries go? Which is it? Do they last a long time or are racers replacing them as soon as newer style cells come out just like the Nimh guys? Since there is very little manufacturer information on the lipo cells, how would you tell the difference between the older style and the newer style?

The Orion packs are great, except for there price, they would be great to legalize. But Craps will tell you that todays 8000mah lipo offered by companies such as maxamps are safe. But the cells are not identified (except a plain self adhesive label on outer shrink wrap on the pack) just like the older dangerous ones were not. There is no way to tell the high quality cells from the low quality cells. (i.e everybody knows the Intellect Bros. 4200 Nimh cell is low quality, everybody knows the Kokam cell in the Orion packs are great quailty, does everybody know that Kokam makes lower quality cells as well?). Legalizing the quality cells is of upmost importance for the hobby and ROAR, how do you do it without legalizing the older unsafe cells?
I'm all for standardizing on a standard of lipo construction and I have been at odds with other lipo users on this topic. If it became legalized with certain safety standards, lipo producers would almost guaranteed have to produce packs that meet those guidelines. This will definitely produce more sales as many are waiting for this and to miss out would be stupid of the battery makers.

On the same topic for NiMH, why are we tolerating the increasing number of exploding packs? Typically when it happens, everyone jokes "at least it wasn't a lipo." No other reaction. So we are expecting lipos to get safer for approval and letting NiMH slide because they are already in use???

On a side note, I think even though Craps has no problems running Maxamps unidentified cells it's being done right. Outdoor only, 20 minute races. One, you see how long these cells can be safely used - no accidents I've heard at their track. Two, it's outdoor racing - very unlikely an accident will be serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
I suggested multiple options, all of which would have a lipo freindly future...

1. don't go down to 5 cell in off-road
2. have a 3.7 volt stock class, 3.7 volt amateur modified class, and a 7.4 volt pro modified class
3. just run slower motors
4. mandate speed controls to put out 6 volts maximum to the motor regardless of input voltage.
None of these options address the fact that it would be forcing someone else's notions of the right way to do things. Lipo advocates are not asking to have lipo approved and NiMH banned. They are asking to be allowed to run alongside them. Also, I might add at a voltage disadvantage to their NiMH using competitors. The argument that the nominal voltage of 7.4 vs. 7.2 has long been discounted.

Anyway, thanks for the honest reply. Sorry about the novel I just wrote.

Last edited by kuzo; 08-08-2007 at 07:18 PM. Reason: my speeling suks
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:03 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tubaboy View Post
Eh, while a single battery may be more expensive. You only need 1 battery for the car for an entire race. You don't need 2 or more sets of batteries.
A novice racer, or even a veteran racer can get by with one Nimh pack for a race night, without discharging I might add, just keep repeaking. I have done it myself. Multiple batteries are certainly more conveinent, and you can extract slightly more performance from them, but its certainly not required to have multiple packs.

another perceived myth about Nimh: that because they peak off at 9 volts, thats what the car see's on the track. reality: a battery that peaks in the 9volt range is typically a well used battery, better batteries peak at lower voltages. Not to mention by the time you plug the battery in, turn on the radio and wait for the start tone the voltage has already dropped well into the lower 8 volt range. Add a warmup lap or two and your into the upper seven volt range. The only time you could see 9 volts at the start of a race would be if your were to 'line charge' the batteries in the car on the starting grid, a technique I have not seen used since the late 80's with 1/10th pan car.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:19 PM   #73
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WOW, nearly three full pages of bickering and name calling. Sounds like fun, I can't figure out why we can't get more people involved.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:26 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
A novice racer, or even a veteran racer can get by with one Nimh pack for a race night, without discharging I might add, just keep repeaking. I have done it myself. Multiple batteries are certainly more conveinent, and you can extract slightly more performance from them, but its certainly not required to have multiple packs.

another perceived myth about Nimh: that because they peak off at 9 volts, thats what the car see's on the track. reality: a battery that peaks in the 9volt range is typically a well used battery, better batteries peak at lower voltages. Not to mention by the time you plug the battery in, turn on the radio and wait for the start tone the voltage has already dropped well into the lower 8 volt range. Add a warmup lap or two and your into the upper seven volt range. The only time you could see 9 volts at the start of a race would be if your were to 'line charge' the batteries in the car on the starting grid, a technique I have not seen used since the late 80's with 1/10th pan car.
Exactly, I do not discharge and balance at the track. About once a month I discharge and then balance my packs or sooner if I notice a cell getting hotter than the others. The battery I use for the first qualifier is peaked off and used for the main. There is no crazy battery ritual needed to use NiMh. I have seen balancers and conditioners for Lipos as well going for $76. Why would they sell them if they are maintenance free?
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:34 PM   #75
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I wonder how many racers out there consider this a hobby? For me it is the cheapest (and safest!) form of motorsport there is.

I think the HOBBY is doing great. The proliferation of el cheapo kits out there speak volumes for the market. The SPORT probably needs some work however...
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