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Old 08-07-2007, 12:17 AM   #121
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Regarding trying to boost numbers, or being concerned about how the price of RC might be pushing some away - I saw you can blame thinkgs like Playstations and X-boxes for that, not the price of racing.

You can't say 6-cell packs are too expensive. I pay $40US new per pack, and run just 3 packs per day for 6 races. For me it's cheaper than Lipo, and going to 5-cell wouldn't help me all that much.

Oh and I keep my cells for 2 years and they go well enough

So in summary, I think cost shouldn't come into our discussion here.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:38 AM   #122
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The cars are going as fast as they are going to go and decreasing to 5 cells wont change a thing for the vast mojority of us. I remember when 7 cells was the rule for Mod and they moved to 6 as the battery technology improved. Now the stock motors are as fast as the mods were 15 years ago in most cases.

Nothing will stop progress and soon Lipos and brushless will be the norm. One of the fastes guys at our track runs a 13.5 brushless and lipos. His car is not the fasted but he seems to wim more often than not. He uses Lipos and has decided not be the worlds fasted car down the streight. Why is that? He knows what wins races. He runs the 13.5 in a 4wd while the rest of us are running mods. It's not all about speed as many of you seem to believe.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:43 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggyolkeo View Post
Regarding trying to boost numbers, or being concerned about how the price of RC might be pushing some away - I saw you can blame thinkgs like Playstations and X-boxes for that, not the price of racing.

You can't say 6-cell packs are too expensive. I pay $40US new per pack, and run just 3 packs per day for 6 races. For me it's cheaper than Lipo, and going to 5-cell wouldn't help me all that much.

Oh and I keep my cells for 2 years and they go well enough

So in summary, I think cost shouldn't come into our discussion here.
I run 4 cars when we race and I have 4 packs for two cars. At $40 a pack each cell cost $6.67. Times that by 8 and that's $53 Thats a good savings for me as I can get a ninth pack and pay for a night of racing.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:27 AM   #124
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Scroooooge!
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:47 AM   #125
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how are saddle pack chassis going to go with 5 cells???

instead of reducing the cells, why not just limit the turn motors? work well for motogp, and also with F1 by limiting the rev limiter.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:54 AM   #126
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Scroooooge!
Every nickle counts in this hobby. Think of all the cool aluminum stuff I can buy with the savings
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:58 AM   #127
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But Skeery, my question would be why should we do that? Limit the motors?

A 10x1 costs the same as a 15x1, so no monetary savings there.

I'm just a skeptic of those people claiming things are blowing up all around them. Spontaneous combustion! Maybe they hold a dark curse

But touch wood, I find reliability at the current level (and I run 4WD and 2WD mod) to be far above satisfactory, and therefore have no motivation to change.

One of our local racers catapulted his XXX4 right into the drivers' stand the other month - nearly took the whole thing down. Let's not rob him of the opportunity to destroy things (although the car didn't break that time!).
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:42 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggyolkeo View Post
But Skeery, my question would be why should we do that? Limit the motors?

A 10x1 costs the same as a 15x1, so no monetary savings there.

the reason the onroad governing bodies did it was the top pros where DNF's because thier ESC or motors were running way too hot.

^^^ thats their (ROAR ETC)reasoning behind lowering the voltages anyway.

i say well if you are not finishing races because the are pushing the motor/esc beyond its limits, then gear it down a bit. but thats too simple, lets reduce the cell count and make people buy new chassis to suit 5 cell..

off road is enjoying a boom from on-roads stupidity, lets not ruin offroad too.

Last edited by SkeeryJones; 08-07-2007 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:14 AM   #129
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I have read every post on here. I respect every opinion. I don't think that I "Dared" to take this to ROAR.
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Good! I am glad. You would have fooled me based on some of the things you said, namely

Quote:
I call upon ROAR and IFMAR, EFRA and the other governing bodies and large race promotors (Mike Boylan, Scotty Ernst, Jimmy Babcock) to go 5 cells across the board on January 1st, 2008 to save our beloved hobby.
On another point. If you want equal speeds and cheap costs, nothing is more equalizing or as cheap as running a brushless motor and lipo batteries. I don't think that you would convince anyone running brushless stock LRP or Novak 13.5t motors and lipo batteries, that one car would be faster than the other. That is as equal and as cheap as it gets.

If you want the same voltages across the board, lipos are the only battery where the top off voltage is set by the charger, hard set at 8.4V. Not like NIMH batteries where the pack voltage is determined by the peak curve which is quite different comparing matched packs and club packs. To be competitive racing NIMH batteries, you have to literally purchase batteries whenever the newest one comes out because it has higher peak voltages and discharges better.

If you want similar motors across the board, brushless motors are the only motors that do not require being cut to increase power, replacing brushes to increase power, etc.... If a pro uses a novak 6.5t motor, and a club guy uses a novak 6.5t motor, the pro won't have an advantage. The club guy doesn't have to worry about not having the best lathe, best brushes, cutting every run etc... They are equal.

LIPOs are cheaper and puts everyone on an equal playing field. There is nothing you can do to a LIPO to make it have higher voltages than another LIPO battery. I need one pack (any lipo brand) for one vehicle per day which is exactly how I run mod right now. I have one maxamps 4400 saddle pack for my BJ4WE (which I have been running for a little over a year and it still has the same capacity that it had when I first purchased it, and still seems to have the same punch), an one RC Common Sense 4000mah battery for my MF2 and B4. I don't need any discharging bulbs, I don't need an equalizer, I don't need a battery nurse. The FMA Direct scorpion 10A lipo charger is only $70 brand new.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:31 AM   #130
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Here are the current ROAR rules....

8.3.13 Unless a lower number is specified in the class requirements, a maximum of six cells is permitted in any vehicle motor power pack used in ROAR-sanctioned competition.

1/10 off-road buggy:
8.9.1.3 Battery Cells: Six cell maximum.

1/10 off-road truck:
8.9.2.4 Battery Cells: Six cell maximum.

The rules are already in place so your all set Frank, use 5 cells all you want!

This thread can now be locked right?

Last edited by Scrubb; 08-07-2007 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:37 AM   #131
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It doesn't need to be a change, it needs to be a tuning option. End of story.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:46 AM   #132
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I don't believe Frank wants a 6V voltage limit at all actually. A 6V voltage limit would be fairer. No, he wants 5 Cell. That means you have to have the BEST 5 cells you can get to be good. A good 5 Cell pack would have well over 6V, up to 7V or higher.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:20 AM   #133
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I don't think anything would need to be changed. If someone is faster with 5-cell there is no rule against them using it. Anyone who wants to run 5-cell can, correct?

If a limit is introduced it will just shut lithium based cells out. I really don't understand how the cars can be too fast. I can understand if you said stock, 19t, or any other spec motor class has become too fast and a simple fix for that is a higher turn motor. I believe entry level in stock can be too much for most newbies but why drop a cell when it's much simpler to change the motors? Mod should be a premier class where speed and power are exciting I think. If someone is running more power than they can handle then it's thier own fault.

In auto racing there is a real need to slow down from time to time. Drivers are IN the cars when they hit a wall and danger goes up with speed. That has nothing to do with RC in my opinion unless someone thinks it's becoming dangerous to the marshals If the issue is wear and tear or parts breakage then the cars need to get tougher. Nitro cars have had high speed for ever and they seem to handle it. Just my opinion.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:32 AM   #134
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In a simple post, are you against 5-cell because you are:

Pro LIPO

or

Anti-Speed Reduction

or

Both

and Why?

Thanks for you responses!
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:45 AM   #135
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I'm against 5 cell, because I do not see a need for change.

It won't save any money. The matchers will simply charge the same amount for 5 cell packs as they currently do for 6 cell packs.

The rules currently allow you to run 5 cells. If that extra cell does not give anyone an advantage, then just run 5 cells, enjoy the lighter weight (or more properly placed weight) and be done with it.

Electric seems to be gaining steam recently, I see no reason to make any changes.

Lipo is great. I don't use it, and since we're a ROAR track, our track doesn't allow it. (Although, we can get around this rule for next year thanks to our track also being in the AMA since our club is also a flying field.)

Speed is great. 2 race weekends ago, a stock motor won the race, because it was so slick. Last weekend, we syruped the track, and all of a sudden a 12T Double was controllable on the track and everybody had more fun. We also increased our laps by 2 in a 5 minute race. So we sped up the cars and people had more fun... Hmmm why change that?

I look at the faces of racers coming off the stand. After a race with their Mod motor, big smiles. To me that equates to no change is necessary.

I don't think racing is to fast. Yes I occasionally break stuff, but that's racing.

Paul
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