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Old 08-06-2007, 03:03 PM   #46
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I believe Truhe runs 5 cells in his BL. Hes still fast.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:10 PM   #47
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I agree that the entry level classes are too fast (especially in onroad) but I dont think the solution is to make us still run NiMH cells. I think they should reduce timing in both stock and 19t motors. Slows the cars down and makes the motors last longer between rebuilds. This worked in the past when the timing went above 36 degrees for motors, they dropped it down to the current 24 degree.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:17 PM   #48
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Hey Frank,

if your willing to put a limit on what batteries people can use to slow down racing, why wouldn't you be willing to put a limit on what type of motors people could use instead to allow superior battery technology?

If the high speed is the problem, then there are a couple ways of controlling the speed.

1. reduce the battery voltage (your suggestion)
2. reduce the speed of the motor (thus allowing superior battery technology)
3. control the speed electronically through speed control software, regardless of motor or battery.

All of these solutions would provide the same end result of slowing down racing. Why do you feel that solution 1 is the best option?
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:26 PM   #49
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You know, after re-reading a few posts, including my own, this is a useless argument. Just about everyone has a need for speed when racing their cars. Who gets into the hobby on the premise of going slow? When have you been racing when a spectator asks you how slow do these cars go? The faster we go on the track, the more spectators stop by and watch and the more it feeds our egos. We, as racers, are always looking for ways to push the envelope to the edge of the rules to go faster than our competitors. That is the name of the game, speed. Would you go to a NASCAR, F1, Indy/Champ Car, Truck, or Sprint car race if they dramatically and noticably slowed the cars down?
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:26 PM   #50
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Perhaps output voltage to the motor should be limited to 6.0v from the speed control. Both NiMH and Lipo batteries could be used without conflict.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Smash View Post
I agree that the entry level classes are too fast (especially in onroad) but I dont think the solution is to make us still run NiMH cells. I think they should reduce timing in both stock and 19t motors. Slows the cars down and makes the motors last longer between rebuilds. This worked in the past when the timing went above 36 degrees for motors, they dropped it down to the current 24 degree.
Stock has always been 24. They had pro stocks that were 36.

Controling speed with electronic "limiters" is hard to police.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
Hey Frank,

if your willing to put a limit on what batteries people can use to slow down racing, why wouldn't you be willing to put a limit on what type of motors people could use instead to allow superior battery technology?

If the high speed is the problem, then there are a couple ways of controlling the speed.

1. reduce the battery voltage (your suggestion)
2. reduce the speed of the motor (thus allowing superior battery technology)
3. control the speed electronically through speed control software, regardless of motor or battery.

All of these solutions would provide the same end result of slowing down racing. Why do you feel that solution 1 is the best option?

This is a great question.

I think option 3 is out because it will be difficult if not impossible to police. Notice F1 had lifted their ban of Traction Control because they realized they could not police it even with their vast resources.

I think Option 2 has already been test for Touring car. Didn't EFRA have a 12 turn limit of a while. I am not a big Touring car guy, but I am pretty sure this was unsuccessful. It is not clear to me why though.

I look at it like also, if we limit the motors and use option 2.. Then there will need to be a Motor Limit Rule for:

Stock
19T
Mod 2wd
Mod Truck
Mod 4wd
Mod 1/12
Mod Touring

The winds, type of winds, ects are different for each class. For example, a 2wd offroad car uses a 12 or 13 turn motor. A touring car used a 7 turn motor. (using tradition winds as example).

So lets say we make all of those limits to be:
Stock - 15.5
19T - 12.5
Mod 2wd - 8.5
Mod Truck - 7.5
Mod 4wd - 7.5
Mod 1/12 - 6.5
Mod Touring - 5.5

Then how can we tech them? The would need to be unwound, ruining each motor teched.

I think is would be much easier to check and tech that only 5 cells are used.

I am NOT anit LiPo, just PRO voltage reductions. If I had my way, a new Lipo based cell would be made with a 3.0 voltage
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:36 PM   #53
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5 cells, thats retarded! If it goes that way I will go back to nitro. I only started running electric because of brushless and lipo. Brushless and lipo are the future. There has been a dramatic upturn in the electric turn out at all of the tracks in my area because of the low maintenance and the ability to run the same time in the main as the nitro guys. I have only seen one lipo go and that is because the guy didn't take it out of his car while he was working on it and drove a hinge pin into the battery. I have seen some of the shot gut ib cell go off and they gave no warning at least the lipo smoked a little befor the flames. Leave 5 cells for the vacuum cleaners that run on carpet. Lipo is for offroad.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:36 PM   #54
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I see a lot of people saying that there is a lot of ESC`s being blown up and cells etc. but can i ask what are these guys doing to them to make them blow? You will destroy a nitro engine if you run it to lean, will destroy a real car/bike engine if you over rev it or make it detonate/run lean, hell anything will break if you stress it, and electrical components are a lot more fragile so of course there will be problems with misuse.

I am big into turbocharged performace in motor cars and i see the same sort of thing happen a lot of the time when people try to push an engine or whatever component beyond its limits, usually ends in an expensive rebuild or someone occasionally getting hurt, this is more serious than R/C but it HAPPENS, this stuff happens everywhere in more aspects than just cars and R/C, there is no limit to how much HP a motor car can make except the money and knowledge resources that are behind the build, cars are undriveable as well that have to much HP and an inexperienced driver behind the wheel but they still pass road worthy and are legal to drive on the street, i cant see how we can limit people and force them to go slower, i just cant see it working, it will make people leave the sport more than join.

There will be a different support for this idea from 2 seperate crowds, i can see more people being in the open to all HP levels group than in the limiting HP group unfortunately....
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLock View Post
Would you go to a NASCAR, F1, Indy/Champ Car, Truck, or Sprint car race if they dramatically and noticably slowed the cars down?
Seriously?

Just so you know, NASCAR, F1, Indy/Champ car have done SEVERAL things over the past 10-15 years to slow their cars down.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:37 PM   #56
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5 cell mod is fine but do you make the legal weight for 6and5cell different like the TC's? Although i dont use them yet lipo is the future of our hobby face it.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:43 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Stock has always been 24. They had pro stocks that were 36.

Controling speed with electronic "limiters" is hard to police.
Not true. ROAR instituted the 24 deg timing rule in 1991.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:45 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by NJA82 View Post
i cant see how we can limit people and force them to go slower, i just cant see it working, it will make people leave the sport more than join.
Bingo! You nailed it.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:51 PM   #59
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Stock - 15.5
19T - 12.5
Mod 2wd - 8.5
Mod Truck - 7.5
Mod 4wd - 7.5
Mod 1/12 - 6.5
Mod Touring - 5.5

The problum here is there will always be conditions that warrent more or less motor. And no two drivers deserve the same ammount of power. Let the driver in the heighest level of compitition deturmine the best ammount of power to tune his car.

Now for stock limits are a good thing. But why a class between stock and mod. Just waters down racing. I think more people need to guided to the motor or class that suits their ability.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:52 PM   #60
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For those who are saying stay with 6 cell and just use lipo:

Are you saying you would rather buy two or three $100-150 packs, a $150 charger that will charge LiPos instead of just taking one cell off your current 6-cell packs? If you have run 5-cell you will realize that its not that bad, in fact its pretty good especially on loose tracks. It could save you $450-600 dollars in packs/chargers and isnt that what the whole goal is, to make things cheaper and safer? And I have seen many "average club racers" blow up packs both EPs and IBs.

And for those who are saying lets go faster:

So you wanna spend lots of money on broken parts and sit out races cause you had to much power that you couldn't handle?
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