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Old 08-10-2007, 08:47 PM   #361
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In closing, I'd like to say that I'm tired of LIPO people. If you like the LIPO, that's fine. Enjoy them at your track. Nobody is out to get you. I'm fairly sure they will be the technology of choice in a couple years. However, THEY WILL NOT SAVE YOU. You will still get beat by the fast guys. Once the fast guys are forced to run them, it will be the same situation as today.


BTW, oval BL guys already are using gauss meters to rate rotors and are polishing them for supposed HP gains. The more things change, the more they stay the same...
BTW, this attitude is exactly why progress isn't made. It's either perfection or status quo isn't it? Just to get everyone in on the lipo secret: no one ever guaranteed they'd improve your lap times, make you money and find you a beautiful nymphomaniac girlfriend.

What lipo does offer: consistent lap times lap to lap, consistent performance day to day, ease of maintenance and beautiful nymphomaniac girlfriends. The last part is not guaranteed, however you'll have more time to search for them instead of maintaining your batteries.

If you are looking for something to save you however I recommend looking into the whole nymphomaniac girlfriend thing.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:49 PM   #362
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I found one of those girls.............Now I need a regulator for her.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:01 PM   #363
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Nmyphomaniac girlfriends seem good now, but mark my words, soon guys will be matching them for performance, finding out they are high maintenance (more work), and push them to their limits (reduce longevity). I guarantee this.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:07 PM   #364
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5 cell 2 years ago would have been GREAT - now is NOT the time for it...

Instead slow yourselves with a SLOWER motor.

Since LIPO Is the upcoming trend in R/C and that coupled with BRUSHLESS...

NOVAK has come out with some SLOWER motors, and will be coming out with an even SLOWER one really soon.

This will eliminate the need for going to 5 cell - it will help create classes in ALL divisions again that can use a COMMON battery (if policed right) HAHA that will NEVER happen...

The NEW 17.5 motor and the upcoming 21.5 motor on 6 cell and/or LIPO will slow things down a bit. They've even done a 25.5 motor, but IMHO it slowed things down TOO Much.

AS FAR AS OVAL GUYS using Gauss Meters...most of that is BS and HYPE.

Most of us are really just learning the BL deal and we were sold such a load of BS by people trying to discourage us from taking that route. Once we got them in our hands and actually got to see WHAT THEY DO - we decided MOST of them were TOO FAST for us - we didn't need to cheat - we needed a SLOWER motor. *Yeah, and we only run on 4 cells NOW...but a group of us are making the switch to the 3200 LIPOS from Peak/ORION and we've got motors tuned to run like the 4 cell classes did but using the LIPOS... which gives us MORE RUN TIME - equal SPEEDS - the ability to use ONE battery pack ALL DAY long...for a LONG period of time (For instance guys testing in AZ have used the same SINGLE pack for over 8 months...w/o even rebalancing it)
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:14 AM   #365
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Nmyphomaniac girlfriends seem good now, but mark my words, soon guys will be matching them for performance, finding out they are high maintenance (more work), and push them to their limits (reduce longevity). I guarantee this.
The problem is, when the come out with a better model that addresses those problems people will still complain about something. Oh sure they have more endurance but they still won't wash your dishes.

Hmmm...matched packs of them. Now that's a matching concept I can get behind!
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:51 AM   #366
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Reading comprehension boys. I like things the way they are (mostly). All you LIPO guys want to saved.
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:35 AM   #367
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Reading comprehension boys. I like things the way they are (mostly). All you LIPO guys want to saved.
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:25 AM   #368
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I am really glad robk got on here. He saved me the trouble of trying to make sence of this whole thread. Except that last sentence, I don't know what you meant.
Going by what all he stated I have come to one conclusion. I pretty much had already come to this but now I'm sure. It is ROAR's fault because they are in the manufacturers pockets. Or at least it's their fault because they have no real power.
Why did they allow stock motors to be opened up? You may think 'because it made racing cheaper because I can now maintain it instead of throwing it away'. Well wrong. Is racing stock cheaper? All it did was create another way for the manufacturers to sell a motor of the Month. Not to mention sell a lot more brushes and springs. Besides, the top of the field runners still throw away their motors. They cut them all the way down and then get a new one.
Why didn't ROAR 'freeze' battery development? If they had the battery manufacturers would still be making their money, but we'd be paying a lot less for us to race. And the guys that wanted to go faster could just go Mod.
My proposal would be to create another class. This may cotradict what I've said in the past, but I'm OK with that because it would use existing hardware, would create an entry level for newbies and be environmentally friendly. Lastly (and I hate this one) it would benefit the manufacturers.
Create a true Stock/Novice Stock class: any current ROAR approved stock motor with an epoxy sealed end bell with fixed timing. This could even allow brushless. Only CURRENTLY offered battery packs that are factory built. FREEZE batteries for this class. Again this could allow lipo but still keep the nimh manufacturers in business. And to keep it 'green', offer an exchange program for the sealed motors. And all the manufacturers need to do is offer an RTR kit with this package in it. Maybe put a 'ROAR approved' sticker on it, so they can still sell the normal RTR's with the junk Mod motors in them. Then the hobby shop can sell one if you wanna go fast in the parking lot or the other if you wanna race.
Then the current Stock class becomes Sportsman, with ROAR approved stock motors (no brushless) and 7.2 nimh only power. 'Sportsman' likes to tinker, so the current stuff is perfect. Also this allows the current manufacturers to continue.
Then we have Limited. Any stock motor (27 turn brushed, 13.5 brushless) without fixed timing (this would allow the brushed to keep up as the brushless develops), and no battery limit.
Finally Open with no motor and no battery limits.
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:25 PM   #369
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I know this reply won't get me a ton of brownie points, but it is realistic.

There is no 100% way to regulate vehicle performance. End of story.

You can build two completely identical vehicles, and manufacturing tolerances themselves will see to it that they perform differently. To accomplish identical performance you would need to regulate everything down to the bearings. It's a pointless and formidable pursuit.

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Old 08-12-2007, 04:39 PM   #370
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I have been reading and looking over this thread for a couple of days now and there is nothing new to this 5 cell nixx junk. I have seen it before and it dose not play out. If anything there needs to be allowing of higher voltage not lower. If you need slower re-gear or get a slower motor. But lower voltage will do nothing but put a heaver demand on esc and the 5 cells in there. Because to get similar performance you are going to need more amps at a lower voltage. With lipo going to take over (sorry if you dont like us lipo guys) the real dilemma needs to be to get safety in there and start developing classes that are based on voltage not other things. You could even give a head up to the nixx guys a little. If you want to run a class where the voltage is a slight spread like 7.2 to 8.4 volts. This will give a little extra the the nixx guys that will help to make up for the lack of current that a nixx battery can drop when compared to a lipo. This dose level out the playing field a lot. I have experimented with this up to 22.5 volts and there is a attainable playing field that works very nicely. But this die all to hold onto a old technology that has reached its zenith in development is really sad to me. I have been racing for almost 20 years and have been active in this hobby for almost 30 so I have seen the evolution to what there is now. The sport needs to stop being hindered by the sanctioning bodies like ROAR. Open up the field and let it run. Things will find a proper perspective. You cant regulate all the performance options. However you can make money doing it. ROAR is very good at this.

Last edited by RURC; 08-13-2007 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:55 PM   #371
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??????

Please say again, preferably in a readable format
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:28 PM   #372
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I assume nixx is nimh. but other than that really hard to follow.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:35 PM   #373
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One comment that I see being mentioned repeatedly is how ROAR is holding up the acceptance of Lipo. ROAR creates rules in coordination with manufacturers. Are any manufacturers currently working with ROAR to create a set of acceptable rules for Lipo batteries? (Ala LRP and Novak did this with the Brushless stuff a couple years ago)

So has Orion, Kokam, MaxAmps, etc. submitted any Lipo batteries to them for review?

I think ROAR wants to allow Lipo batteries, but they need the assistance of the experts in the field (ie. manufacturers). Part of the reason I think this is the case is this past year's off-road nationals.

As for ROAR having rules, that's not a bad thing. Otherwise, safety could become a real issue. I think any new technology should go through a review procedure before being allowed.

Frank's post about moving to 5 cell is something that we as ROAR members have a direct impact on. It does not need the involvement of the manufacturers. Rather it is a decision that should be decided by the racers and or ex-com. Right or wrong, I'm glad Frank brought up the 5 cell discussion.

This last part is off-topic. But 4200's in their current state are more dangerous then Lipo's in my opinion.

This past weekend, a cell blew in somebody's pit. (He was charging at 2 AMPS!!) Struck him in the butt. leaving a welt several inches wide and causing him to limp most of the day. Additionally, the battery chemicals struck another guy nearby in the face. Luckily he was wearing glasses, otherwise his eyesight could have been severely damaged by the battery acid. The racer, was a new guy, who bought a somewhat cheap charger cuz he is new, and the batteries that everybody else runs. The batteries were about a month old and this was their 3 race. Needless to say, not a good situation. This is one issue I hope ROAR does take a look at.

Paul
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:57 PM   #374
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I ran 5 cells in mod buggy this weekend and I personally liked it. In the main I was afraid i would be left off the line, but I actually excellerated harder cause I wasnt spinning the tires are much. I plan on running this from here out. This is not to say everyone should run 5 cell. I say keep the current rules, and maybe add a weight provision if you want to run 5cells like they do in sedan. I didnt feel I missed out on any power and overall the car was just easier for me to drive, but still plenty fast. Those that have the skill and throttle control to harness all the power they can get, more power to them lol.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:07 PM   #375
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I ran 5 cells in mod buggy this weekend and I personally liked it. In the main I was afraid i would be left off the line, but I actually excellerated harder cause I wasnt spinning the tires are much. I plan on running this from here out. This is not to say everyone should run 5 cell. I say keep the current rules, and maybe add a weight provision if you want to run 5cells like they do in sedan. I didnt feel I missed out on any power and overall the car was just easier for me to drive, but still plenty fast. Those that have the skill and throttle control to harness all the power they can get, more power to them lol.
What you stated could have been accomplished by re-gearing the car, using a slower motor, or just using more throttle control; all of that with 6-cells. The current standard should be left alone since it does give you the option to run 5-cells, not mandate a five cell run and throw the hobby on its ear.
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