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Old 08-10-2007, 12:51 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Brandon Rohde View Post
Who is "they"? For the most part, I think people are all giving valid viewpoints to try and come to some sort of agreement. No solution is perfect... there needs to be some middle ground and everyone will need to give and take a little.
The "they" was a specific reply to the question JLock had about "why don't people...". So not a "they" like you were thinking.

Just because someone is trying to sell people on a concept doesn't mean their viewpoints aren't valid so I wasn't casting blame on anyone. I was just answering what I thought the reasoning behind his question was.

Now stop bothering me, I've got to get this patent on a tamper-proof voltage regulator set before they become required.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:52 PM   #347
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I think this is where most of the confusion of the point I am trying to make comes from. The first thing people think of when I say 5-cells is the Mod Class. In all honest, if the mod class is to stay "Open", I would welcome that. LIPO, Ni-MH, don't care, 6.0, 7.2, 7.4, don't care - FOR MOD. In Mod you can run a 3.5 with a 5 cell and still haul the mail, nothing is going to stop guys from going fast if they want too.

I think the change is more important for stock. Stocks are too fast right now. True, you "CAN" run 5-cells in stock, it is an option, but who's going to? No one...they all want to go fast, and not for the sake of going fast, but to be competitive. If they JUST wanted to go fast, they'd be running mod. If everyone running stock was on 5 cells, and a 13.5 (ideal IMO), then they can all be competitive which is what stock guys desire right?

Then newbs could handle the power, be able to DRIVE their cars, and start off at a level of competition that won't leave them searching for a new hobby...
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Why move to 5 cell? People are already disconnecting the 6th cell on certain conditions. This isn't sedan where people are frying electronics. If you feel the power is too much for you then step down to a slower motor.

Keep it simple.
This is why.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:00 PM   #348
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This is why.

So, the people smart enough to go to 5 cell should have an advantage. Why force people or change a rule that gives people choices?
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:01 PM   #349
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If you read the 2nd part, the part about stock, then you'd know.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:06 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by tripthreat View Post
If you read the 2nd part, the part about stock, then you'd know.

Look, no matter how much you want to slow down stock even more. Beginners will always be hitting thing or missing jumps it is just part of the learning curve. You can even go to mabuchi if it was really that important to slow down stock.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:10 PM   #351
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How many of you plan on replacing their Nk-Ml with Li-po for this fall season ?
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:13 PM   #352
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Look, no matter how much you want to slow down stock even more. Beginners will always be hitting thing or missing jumps it is just part of the learning curve. You can even go to mabuchi if it was really that important to slow down stock.
People will still break, but not as much. They will get lapped when the start, but not as many times... it is something to help aid everyone, especially newbs.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:36 PM   #353
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How many of you plan on replacing their Nk-Ml with Li-po for this fall season ?
i have a sprint car that will be converting to lipo/bl3.5, xray04 late model.. those 2 because I don't want to take the battery out if i can help it. possibly my B4, 10L2 and T4 when i pick it up. I don't want to wake up at 4 or 5am, to go to a one day race (series) and if i'm lucky get 2 batteries of practice in before qualifying starts. I'd rather be able to make a lot more changes instead of waiting for batteries to come off hot n ready..
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:07 PM   #354
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I'm actually been thinking about buying some NiMh to replace my Lipos this winter. I've been looking all over my TA05 for places to add weight so my Lipo would be legal and I'm realizing its just not worth the hassle.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:14 PM   #355
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Look at it this way...........alot of tracks don't allow one or the other (lipo, 6 cell, 5 cell) so this will bring turnouts down even lower than they are already. Because the 6 cell guys won't go to track A because they allow lipo and lipo guys won't go to track B because its 6 and 5 cell. So while everybody boycots certain tracks because of the battery issue, the tracks suffer and close.

The solution 6.0 volts across the board. Rather than try to race apples against oranges..............lets make everybody race an equal product.
We currently allow whatever you want to run, be it 5cell (none), 6cell (myself), or li-po's (mod class). What I don't want and probably will do isf 5 cell is the max # of cells, is just buy some li-po's and play (i.e. not race) my vehicles.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:27 PM   #356
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I think this is where most of the confusion of the point I am trying to make comes from. The first thing people think of when I say 5-cells is the Mod Class. In all honest, if the mod class is to stay "Open", I would welcome that. LIPO, Ni-MH, don't care, 6.0, 7.2, 7.4, don't care - FOR MOD. In Mod you can run a 3.5 with a 5 cell and still haul the mail, nothing is going to stop guys from going fast if they want too.

I think the change is more important for stock. Stocks are too fast right now. True, you "CAN" run 5-cells in stock, it is an option, but who's going to? No one...they all want to go fast, and not for the sake of going fast, but to be competitive. If they JUST wanted to go fast, they'd be running mod. If everyone running stock was on 5 cells, and a 13.5 (ideal IMO), then they can all be competitive which is what stock guys desire right?

Then newbs could handle the power, be able to DRIVE their cars, and start off at a level of competition that won't leave them searching for a new hobby...
I agree with you that the mod classes should be open to all but why should I go slower in stock just because some drivers (beginners) can't drive as fast. The 5 cell racers (like myself) will still be faster than the newbies. That's why I keep saying start a Novice class for the newbie. Not only will they be able to learn how to drive, it's also the future of this hobby (future racers).

How does that help? Maybe I'm missing the point somewhere.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:49 PM   #357
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This is why.
I still don't get it. I remember my newb days (gold tub 6 gear RC10) and battery was the least of my worries. Back then you had to completely customize your car to even keep it on the track...... 5 cell or 6 cell is moot. Newbs will be newbs and the BEST thing we can do for those starting out is to HELP THEM! DUH! Driving tips, help wrenching, good sound advice, etc.

Sorry, 5 cell or 6 cell won't even compare to a sympathetic ear and an experienced wrench applied every so often..... "IF" you want them to stay in the hobby.....
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:56 PM   #358
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I still don't get it. I remember my newb days (gold tub 6 gear RC10) and battery was the least of my worries. Back then you had to completely customize your car to even keep it on the track...... 5 cell or 6 cell is moot. Newbs will be newbs and the BEST thing we can do for those starting out is to HELP THEM! DUH! Driving tips, help wrenching, good sound advice, etc.

Sorry, 5 cell or 6 cell won't even compare to a sympathetic ear and an experienced wrench applied every so often..... "IF" you want them to stay in the hobby.....
Art speaks the truth. If you want the hobby to survive, make the new people feel welcome, not like they are in the way of "the fast guys".
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:06 PM   #359
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the "fast" guys will still have the ultra matched team packs and running them for 5 cycles then on to a new pack REGARDLESS if its 5 cell or 6 cell. that is still an advantage staying with nihms will have. from my understanding 30s lipo is a 30s lipo you really cant get a difference and they operate the same for a whole season and in fact you can charge them a couple weeks ahead of time and not lose anything performance wise. from my experiences it isn't the lack of skill that kills a sport (that is the fun part) its the never ending spending spree that goes along with trying to stay competitive. broken a arm 5 bucks (my guess you will still have that in 5 cell as when i break very rarely am i going as fast as the car can), vs a new team nihm pack a month $60.....faster you go the more practice you need and if your "fast stuff" becomes no longer fast enough to compete you are right back out there spending money on batteries and cutting coms......if they are already that fast in "stock" they will have the same advantages running 5 cell that they already do in 6 cell. when i go to series races mod out numbers stock...why? all you need is a fast motor and a pack that will last 5 minutes. in stock you are limited on the motor so ALWAYS keeping it in top shape (cut coms new brushes tweaking springs) then always needing a battery that can kick out that extra .1 of a volt.....a mandated change from the org that changes what club tracks run is just going to kill the org. why? you say its to stop all the splitting up of what is being run yet all it is is another split.

saying stock is too fast because of lap times? i know for a fact having raced against Dakota before and watching him that his "stock" vehicles are not as fast as a 14 turn mod car (in fact i would bet in a straight he isn't as fast as my 19t old beat up chameleon2). if you watch him run he carries his speed through the turns. saying stock is outright is too fast because it moves at the limit that a car can spin out in a corner? if stock was so fast why can i clear a set of doubles with a 19t that i cant with a fresh stock? or is it maybe mod is so fast that they have to slow down so much that they are no longer making silky smooth corners? we have a guy at our local track that beats alot of 4 wheel mod and 2 wheel mods (he beat a few factory sponsored guys as well) with a 13.5 brushless and OLD 3300 cells. he gets WHOOPED down the straights but makes it all up and then some in the infield.....

just saying what I think and have seen. i'm not bashing anyone (so don't take it as such) i just feel the majority of racing is done more so at/on a club level and the MORE that a major org tries to influence the rules with a major shake up on old technology the wider the gap between what typical racers want and what an org who may put on 1 or two major races in a given area may want WILL lower participation at those major races by locals. "evening" the the rules by what is already flawed (imo) isnt going to change much. don't take me wrong i race more nitro but still love electric offroad (my roots to rc racing started in the mid 80's with electric offroad). i started back into electric last year and i about flipped when i seen what the fast guys do. they either cut coms (i bought a lathe due to this) after every 2 runs + either put in new or cut brushes and were literially selling bat packs that were 2 weeks old.
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:26 PM   #360
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I just read the whole thread.....

1. The move to 5 cell is mostly in response to sedan issues, mostly racing on asphalt in hot weather. The cars usually hold together on carpet, when it's cooler. It sounds like mod offroad may be overpowered anyway if Truhe is winning on 5 cells.

2. Stock is too fast. It is not about the guys driving the cars badly. It's about the way better racers running over the the guys driving badly, or crashing into them. Make stock slower=faster guys want to run in a faster class (19t), slower guys have a chance to develop. This is also magnified 10x in on road.

3. The anti Lipo conspiracy is finally revaled!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Really, no one cares about Lipo packs so much that they want to stop you from racing them. However, when you do finally get your wish of legalization, you will find out all the problems with NIMH will come up with LIPO. They will match them (unequal), and find ways to improve maintenance (more work), and push them to their limits (reduce longevity). I guarantee this.

4. BL spec motors are screwed up right now. Sintered 13.5 is faster than a stock motor. Nobody uses the bonded rotors since they don't last as long. Oval guys have told me personally that the 13.5s do faster lap times. I have watched how fast the sedans go w/13.5.

Now Novak has a 17.5 motor. This may be closer to what is needed, but right now there is not a standard. There does need to be some kind of standard put in place to give the manufacturers something to shoot for.

5. Nitro is popular beacuse it makes noise. Also 1/8 buggy is traction limited at most venues. Those combine to make it more popular than EP. Nobody has brought up the popularity, or lack thereof, of 1/8 ON Road. As with anything, the more power gets to the ground, the less people want to race it. Too much $$

In closing, I'd like to say that I'm tired of LIPO people. If you like the LIPO, that's fine. Enjoy them at your track. Nobody is out to get you. I'm fairly sure they will be the technology of choice in a couple years. However, THEY WILL NOT SAVE YOU. You will still get beat by the fast guys. Once the fast guys are forced to run them, it will be the same situation as today.


BTW, oval BL guys already are using gauss meters to rate rotors and are polishing them for supposed HP gains. The more things change, the more they stay the same...
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