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Old 08-10-2007, 09:18 AM   #316
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Don't forget that current LiPo technology doesn't allow for a 6 volt pack, Brandon. Each LiPo cell is 3.7V, just like each NiMH cell is 1.2V.

It sounds like some education is needed for track owners and sanctioning bodies around the safety of LiPo cells. That seems to be the only real reason that there isn't widespread acceptance of the technology.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:19 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by kuzo View Post
A question for you now. If a simple, cheap and fixed at 6V voltage regulator came out would you support any and all battery types to be used side by side under the new proposed rule?

Absolutely!
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:24 AM   #318
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100% on board..............with weight restrictions
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:31 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Brandon Rohde View Post
Bottom line I guess is that I am a big fan of keeping options open, but I am also a fan of trying to reduce the cost of racing to keep more people into the hobby instead of driving them away because of the cost.
Me too. If people truly want to "save our beloved hobby", they should drop this forcing 5 cell on everyone business and work on getting BL OK'd in stock and 19T. You know there's something wrong with the beginner and intermediate classes when it's cheaper for me to use my BL set-up in mod than run either one of those classes.

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I like the thought of going to 5 cells, but because LiPo is such a well liked technology and is most likely going to be the pack of the future, its going to be hard to push 6 volt limits until there is an equivalent 6 volt LiPo pack.
Very true. And the fact of the matter is that there might never be a 3v lipo cell made for RC'ers to use. What's ironic is that stock and 19T BL cars actually slow down when using lipo in comparison to NIMH and they can be a little lighter. Isn't that what some of the people in this thread want to see happen by using 5 cells? In a perfect world, the spec classes would eventually become 10.5 or 13.5 BL + Lipo. That is currently the cheapest way to race with the least amount of voodoo...Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world. I don't see that happening in the near future so the least we can is work together on getting BL into the spec classes and not alienate the ever-growing lipo crowd by mandating 5 cell "6v" in racing.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:33 AM   #320
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Don't mean to get off topic, but, I have seen a few posts that state moving the standard to 5-cell will help to save on wear and tear on the car. Can someone explain that one? If you run your car, moving parts move and wear. These same parts, at some time, will fail due to excessive wear, which usually come from long-time use or non-maintenance of the car (not cleaning bearings, rebuilding diffs, etc). So, I don't see where switching to 5-cells would save wear when this is the result of the laws of physics.
Any time you add more power, it will wear on equipment. Tires spin more (and on abrasive tracks that makes a big difference), outdrives wear quicker, etc etc. Just picture putting a Corvette engine in a For Taurus. The Taurus is a solid car, but over power it and the drivetrain won't last long.

Please don't take that as a rip, its not intended that way. Just trying to explain it a little bit. From personal experience, it does save on the car. It's not going to instantly save you tons of money, but over time it will a little bit. The difference is most noticeable if you are running brushed motors, but that will soon be a mute point I think.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:34 AM   #321
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I have both LiPo and NiMH batteries in my box. I use both still in the 6 r/c cars I take to the track 3 times a week.

3 cars are brushless, 3 cars are brushed. 2 cars use LiPo, the rest NiMH. 1 car is mod, 4 are stock, 1 is rtr.

slowing down the cars would only help my wife, daughters, and sons that are racing currently. thats 5 people.

when I started I had trouble staying between the pipes, making the jumps, and not colliding with the other racers. so did the other novice drivers with me though. it had far less to do with speed then pure newness to the sport.

it didnt take me long to move from novice to stock, and even less time to start being competitive (sort of) in stock and getting a 4wd to run mod with. even in mod I am competitive (again, sort of) enough to place in races. I dont win, but I dont get smoked like when I first moved up.

I have spent some money on parts that have broken from crashing, sure. but I notice that I spent alot more in the novice class on a-arms and such than I do now even racing my mod.

I like running my LiPo batteries. not because they make me faster, they dont. but if I get off late from work, or have some reason that I cannot make it to the track an hour before racing starts, it doesnt matter because I charged up yesterday and my batteries held that charge and are ready to go.

and another thought just occured to me. LiPo batteries do have an advantage to the less than professional driver that NiMH do not offer. consistancy! with my NiMH I would have more trouble with control for the first 3 or 4 laps because the batteries had power than near the end of the race, right? LiPo has the same output start to end, thus making for more consistancy in lap times and less spinouts and/or crashes in the early going.

speaking of the time before I learned to drive a little better, of course.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:35 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by SkarTisu View Post
Don't forget that current LiPo technology doesn't allow for a 6 volt pack, Brandon. Each LiPo cell is 3.7V, just like each NiMH cell is 1.2V.
Thats why I said the manufacturers would need to create a new cell that allowed for 6 volts I have no idea how easy that is to do... I just mean conceptually that would be a possible solution.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:44 AM   #323
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If people truly want to "save our beloved hobby", they should drop this forcing 5 cell on everyone business and work on getting BL OK'd in stock and 19T. You know there's something wrong with the beginner and intermediate classes when it's cheaper for me to use my BL set-up in mod than run either one of those classes.
I completely agree with you about legalizing BL motors for stock/19t. The problem now seems that 13.5 seems to be the "Stock Brushless", but it is still faster than current stock motors. At that point, I think stock in general is a little too fast right now. Stock motors were great for beginners 10 years ago, but now even a 5 cell stock would blow away a 6 cell 1700 NiCd pack with a sealed can stock motor. A perfect example of this was at the nationals this year in Albuquerque. In round 1 of qualifying, Dakotah Phend's time in stock truck would have put him 11th in modified truck. Dakotah drove a great race, but when stock motors are almost as fast as modified on a large outdoor track, then I think its a little too fast for a novice class. Anyways, that's just my .02.

The other reason that not much has been done to legalize a stock/19t brushless equivilant is that the technology hasn't matured yet. Brushless is certainly solid now, but new things such as sintered roters and more powerful speed controls keep coming out. If we legalize a 13.5 motor today, will it be equivalent to a 15 turn in 2 years?
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:54 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Brandon Rohde View Post
The other reason that not much has been done to legalize a stock/19t brushless equivilant is that the technology hasn't matured yet. Brushless is certainly solid now, but new things such as sintered roters and more powerful speed controls keep coming out. If we legalize a 13.5 motor today, will it be equivalent to a 15 turn in 2 years?

Other then Roar not setting manufacturing rules yet for Bl in the stock/19t class,how is this a strong argument when the same thing happens with Brushed stock and 19t motors.If Roar doesn't want to look past the tip of their nose,then get ready to have alot more clubs and racers no longer affiliate with an Org or track that can't keep up with change.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:56 AM   #325
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As for the 5cell vs. 6 cell, why should it be mandated? If you want to run 5 it's legal now and for those whom want to run 6 should be able to continue to run 6 cells. I don't see how mandating 5 cell max. going to help the hobby.
I think this is where most of the confusion of the point I am trying to make comes from. The first thing people think of when I say 5-cells is the Mod Class. In all honest, if the mod class is to stay "Open", I would welcome that. LIPO, Ni-MH, don't care, 6.0, 7.2, 7.4, don't care - FOR MOD. In Mod you can run a 3.5 with a 5 cell and still haul the mail, nothing is going to stop guys from going fast if they want too.

I think the change is more important for stock. Stocks are too fast right now. True, you "CAN" run 5-cells in stock, it is an option, but who's going to? No one...they all want to go fast, and not for the sake of going fast, but to be competitive. If they JUST wanted to go fast, they'd be running mod. If everyone running stock was on 5 cells, and a 13.5 (ideal IMO), then they can all be competitive which is what stock guys desire right?

Then newbs could handle the power, be able to DRIVE their cars, and start off at a level of competition that won't leave them searching for a new hobby...
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:59 AM   #326
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Other then Roar not setting manufacturing rules yet for Bl in the stock/19t class,how is this a strong argument when the same thing happens with Brushed stock and 19t motors.If Roar doesn't want to look past the tip of their nose,then get ready to have alot more clubs and racers no longer affiliate with an Org or track that can't keep up with change.
You know why Roar hasn't legalize stock BL yet? Cause there is only 1 motor!

If it were legalized today, they would hand Novak a Monapoly on the stock class, hardly fair to LRP, Reedy, Orion, Trinity and everyone else out there. Once someone else has a 13.5 motor ready, I think it will get done.

Darn politics
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:05 AM   #327
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100% on board..............with weight restrictions
Holy crap, we agree.

One question and forgive my ignorance. What voltage would a fresh 5 cell pack have after charging? Do we use an average pack as a baseline to determine what a voltage regulator would be set at?
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:05 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
Other then Roar not setting manufacturing rules yet for Bl in the stock/19t class,how is this a strong argument when the same thing happens with Brushed stock and 19t motors.If Roar doesn't want to look past the tip of their nose,then get ready to have alot more clubs and racers no longer affiliate with an Org or track that can't keep up with change.
Brushed motors aren't changing drastically anymore. The main changes now are just changes in the number of laminations and small dimensional changes on the inside of the motor to suit the newest batteries the best. The increase in speed is coming mostly from batteries.

Whether or not you like what ROAR is doing, they need to be around as an organizing body to standardize rules. Just think how much it would suck if every race you went to had a completely different set of rules? Yeah, certain tracks will allow certain things to suit their racers wants, and that is fine. But they still all hold true to the same base concepts. The whole point of this thread is to let ROAR and other sanctioning bodies/race directors know what we as racers want to see changed. Its not a thread to bash on the current rules, but rather to offer opinions on what we want changed as technologies progress.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:31 AM   #329
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Holy crap, we agree.

One question and forgive my ignorance. What voltage would a fresh 5 cell pack have after charging? Do we use an average pack as a baseline to determine what a voltage regulator would be set at?
That is a good question.. but I am not really sure.

Think about it, a 6-cell pack can peak anywhere from 8.9v to 9.7ish. But, the pack that peaks at 8.9 will always run better, so... that puts a kink in things.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:33 AM   #330
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5 cell, eh

at the reedy race , touring car, the mod cars running 5 cell were faster and broke the track record...

so much for slowing them down, dumb idea
Yea, but that is in a class that you can adjust the motor turn to compensate. Try that in the stock or 19T class where their is a motor limit and see how slow they are. 5 cell is slower than 6 cell. Its all about voltage.
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