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Old 08-09-2007, 08:21 PM   #286
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If you actually read what he said, you will notice that he says that the diff between 6 cells and Lipo is no big deal and that there is no way to get lipo in to the 5 cell range so that kind of rules the kipo vs non-lipo relevance out of the arguement.

The real meat of the thread is in this quote
I call upon ROAR and IFMAR, EFRA and the other governing bodies and large race promotors (Mike Boylan, Scotty Ernst, Jimmy Babcock) to go 5 cells across the board on January 1st, 2008 to save our beloved hobby.


Notice, no mention of Lipo. Oh, and yes, I do know Frank. Thanks for asking.

This is all I will say on the subject. I don't get in to blithering arguements.
The real meat of the thread actually does more than just take lipo off the table as the intention is to also force nimh users to run 5 cells too which doesn't seem too popular. All in the name of "saving our beloved hobby". There's plenty of people who try to force change for everyone's own good in all aspects of life. They usually do more damage no matter how good their intentions.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:21 PM   #287
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I honestly don't care what you think the topic here is.
So why are you arguing about it?
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:24 PM   #288
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I did not read this thread from the beginning. My mistake, I guess I'm half baked. Although I stand by all the comments I have made. And I don't feel threatened when a thread veers off topic, as I feel it is a form of conversation and it tends to happen. It is not a formal debate.
But if this started as a call to require all classes in all disciplines of 1/10 electric racing to limit battery power to 6 volts I say 'GOOD LUCK'. I am only involved in off road, but I don't see a problem with 7.2 volts. And as a matter of fact when I returned to this sport after pulling out in '95 I was disappointed that 8.4 was no longer allowed.
Now the thread will probably go off topic again about why (or why not) that was a good thing.
And I love it when people intrude with a hostile comment then say 'screw you guys'. Sorry if we aren't playing your way. Take your ball and go home. You ever notice how there are certain people who always seem to wind up in the middle of a fight when they go to a bar? Same thing.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:24 PM   #289
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So why are you arguing about it?
I am arguing about the topic. What I don't care about is what you think the topic is. Thanks for asking.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:53 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by SpeedyDad View Post
If you actually read what he said, you will notice that he says that the diff between 6 cells and Lipo is no big deal and that there is no way to get lipo in to the 5 cell range so that kind of rules the kipo vs non-lipo relevance out of the arguement.
The OP ssuggested ALL 1/10th scale should go to 5 cell. Secondly, he brought up/admits that LiPo cannot fit within the suggestion that he is proposing. Thirdly, he said that 5 cell (i.e. 6v) is necessary for the future of RC (I'm paraphrasing here).

There is a seemlingly large portion of the RC racing community that feel there is a better future in LiPo. He is suggesting we go a route that would exclude LiPo (at least in the current configuration). I agree with you, the LiPo vs 7.2v NiMh argument is "no big deal" and is not relevant to this thread, but this thread is by your own admission about 6v. Therefore the LiPo discussion is a reasonable counterpoint to the OP suggestion and is EXTREMELY relevant here. I'm not sure how it could be intrepreted otherwise.

I see what you are trying to say SpeedyDad (you would rather a discussion of 5cell), I just don't agree with the logic that LiPo is not relevant to this discussion.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:58 PM   #291
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And absolutely lets discuss 6 volt. And please help me understand how this will 'fix' 1/10 electric.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:21 PM   #292
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i just dont really understand how 6v (5cell)will save the hobby..1 cell wont make a bit of difference to most people i race with. we dont get 30 packs a year (most people i know get 3-5) so wow they save 50 bucks a year on packs. i run a 6 year old esc and i have only seen 4 fry (most of the time when they fry that i seen is due to a short that gets there from a wreck or not paying attention when they solder). what will they do lower the weight limit? allow them to put more aluminum on a car? trade off there would be a more expensive car. too me just seems crazy to go away from an industry standard thinking that will save the sport. im not calling anyone stupid or crazy i just dont see the point. back in the 80's we had 3 classes of racing in off road 2wd stock, 2 wd mod and 4wd mod. now we have stock truck , mod truck, stock buggy, mod buggy, and mod 4wd plus brushless classes and whatever 19t classes they want to throw in. costs to race stock at a very competitive level imo is BACKWARDS. stock is nothing but a battery and or a motor tuning war. run it once or twice cut the com and new brushes, oops i ran this battery 8 times its .05 seconds a lap slower get a new pack......imo let lipo and 13.5 brushless would be alot more even than what we have now in stock. sure you might spend 100 bucks more on it but you ONLY need 1 pack and you can charge it a week ahead of time and the motors wont need springs,com lath and new brushes. this is alot to chew for a newb. when i left racing the only motors we could actually take apart without yanking tabs were mod motors...again not trying to get off topic i just dont see how saving 6-10 dollars on a cell will cure anything as there will still be 80+ dollar ultra team 5 cell packs. also another point i didnt touch on but half the fun of racing is trying to control a powerful race car...drop to 5 cell in a stock truck might as well start taking lap times with an hour glass or a sun dial or make stock 19t.....you might get 200 entries at an electric race now (back in the day that was a large club race) but its scattered across 5 + classes.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:24 PM   #293
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And absolutely lets discuss 6 volt. And please help me understand how this will 'fix' 1/10 electric.

This is what i myself am wondering. I help out in my LHS quite a bit and have never seen anyone at the counter saying man this thing is too fast im selling all my stuff. Nor have i seen anyone interested in starting the hobby say if it was slower i would buy one.
Yes i know its not about speed its about leveling the playing field but in offroad battery performance is not a huge deal. In the other 1/10ep forms of racing its another story.
I understand that within the last 2 years motor power has jumped up in leaps and bounds but so what, its offroad. For 90% of a given track you wont use half of it so why a need for change.
I would have no problem running 5cell mod but our 19t or stock club racers wouldnt go for 5cells. And if the club racers dont race then the lhs's start closing then racing all together is done. So do you think what Frank proposed is viable. I dont. However i do think lipo and brushless are helping and will help EP offroad.
A few people brought up the bigger races in the U.S not allowing lipo technology and posted turnouts to show that even without lipo people still come. Well of course they will all those racers are diehards like me and some of you. We would race 4,5,6,7 lipo,hydrogen fusion power cell it doesnt really matter we just like to race. But the other 75% of the hobby club racers and weekend warriors need to be happy and excited about racing to keep this part of our hobby alive and 5cells will kill it.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:48 PM   #294
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Many people who run 5 cell claim they are faster with it with less wear, many people like lipo and being able to run only one pack for years, many people like having spare time and not having to tune motors constantly.

What do you do with all these people?

You don't force them all to run one or the other, what I say woul be to let them all run together(5 cell, lipo, brushless) and let the racersdetermine which is better. Instead of armchair arguements over the internet you can let the racers(who want faster lap times) decide which is faster or easier for them at the level of racing that they are at.

Let the same be at ROAR/other events, it won't be long before the racers figure out which is faster for their driving and run it.

Everyone has fun, everyone goes fast, everyones wallet survives(mostly) intact.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #295
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I am with Penguin. I wonder what would happen if ROAR approved Lipo tomorrow in all classes, unrestricted?
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:27 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
everyones wallet survives(mostly) intact.
As your chief sponsor, I support this.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:53 AM   #297
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5 cells? LOL!

/thread
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Old 08-10-2007, 06:07 AM   #298
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Dont laugh, it might happen. Bob Stelleflue of AE said its time to switch to 5 cells in a RCCA article about the TC5. If that improves reliability and durability and is eventually what happens, I won't cry myself to sleep at night.

Before I get jumped on again, I am o.k. with lipos so long as everybody motors down. Because I am that guy who came into the hobby store and can admit the car and equipment I bought is a little too fast.

Ecept for Orion (who obviously stand to make the most money from an industry swtich) I havent read to much from other manufacturers on this subject. You would think they would have the most influence. If anybody actually knows which way they are leaning that would be helpfull. I assume they want whatever will be the most profitable.
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Old 08-10-2007, 06:31 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
Many people who run 5 cell claim they are faster with it with less wear, many people like lipo and being able to run only one pack for years, many people like having spare time and not having to tune motors constantly.

What do you do with all these people?

You don't force them all to run one or the other, what I say woul be to let them all run together(5 cell, lipo, brushless) and let the racersdetermine which is better. Instead of armchair arguements over the internet you can let the racers(who want faster lap times) decide which is faster or easier for them at the level of racing that they are at.

Let the same be at ROAR/other events, it won't be long before the racers figure out which is faster for their driving and run it.

Everyone has fun, everyone goes fast, everyones wallet survives(mostly) intact.
I knew that there had to be something we agreed on! This is what I said way back on page 4:
"Here's a thought, a lot of 5 cell drivers say they run faster lap times. Lipo tends to run at a disadvantage voltage-wise to good 6 cell packs until you get to mod. Everyone says electric needs drastic change to survive. How's this for drastic - mix them all.

6 cell drivers can't complain as they clearly feel they'd have the advantage over both the others.
5 cell drivers claim they run faster so what can they complain about? Give them a chance to prove it in mixed racing.
Lipo users will be just as happy to be allowed to run.

Win-Win?"
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:14 AM   #300
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has anyone wondered why ppl in the know, ie, bob stelflue, frank and most all of the other big racers want this change?????

could it be possible that they are right?????

the simple fact is that when you get down to brass tacks lipo is illegal, period end of story. many tracks allow them that is fine, so when one talks about dropping a cell that is the conversation.....not whether lipo is better or not....
it may be......
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