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Old 08-07-2007, 06:29 PM   #181
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only things i see go poof are the brushless controllers.....hint if you thermal it you have it geared wrong lol
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:31 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
Proper gearing and brushless systems mean anything?

In touring people are finding that to run 5 cell you gear up and go lower on motor, where does this leave you?

Back where you started
Not really. The cars are lighter, and thus even if the car hit the same straight-line speed, which they don't (close though), the lighter car requires less force to get to that same speed meaning less load is put on the Motor and ESC. There is a difference.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:59 PM   #183
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I believe 5 cell will prolong the death of TC racing but it wont keep it on life support for very long. It has just gotten too expensive. When it first started it was cheap cars out on the parking lot track in front of the shop. Tires would last weeks. Then the cars got a little better and the parking lot was a little too rough for them. Premanent tracks popped up. The cars got more expensive, the tires stickier, and you could put down all the horsepower yu could find. Good motors and batteries were a must. Now you have $500 chassis, $70 battery packs that are only good for a month of racing at best, and tires that fall off after 3 runs. Classes sizes are shrinking and tracks are switching to other forms of racing or closing. Does anyone here think that going to 5 cells is gonna fix this problem?

This is why electric offroad is coming back. Lots of tracks around due to the gas craze, some survived from when electric offroad took its drop. Now all these former TC guys have all their gear and dont want to play the $$$ game anymore.

Back to offroad, 5 cell wont help it at all. We arent blowing up electronics unless we are running a 4.5 in a 4 wheeler in +90deg weather with the wrong gear on. Slow down the stock motors, encourage the guys that dont like the slower stocks to run 19t, and a bunch of sack up and start running mod again
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:59 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
Here are the current ROAR rules....

8.3.13 Unless a lower number is specified in the class requirements, a maximum of six cells is permitted in any vehicle motor power pack used in ROAR-sanctioned competition.

1/10 off-road buggy:
8.9.1.3 Battery Cells: Six cell maximum.

1/10 off-road truck:
8.9.2.4 Battery Cells: Six cell maximum.

The rules are already in place so your all set Frank, use 5 cells all you want!

This thread can now be locked right?
I felt like bringing this back into discussion. The rules already allow 5 cells from what this says. What's the problem then? Every 5 cell thread I've seen is full of people claiming they run faster or at least consistent laps as they do with 6 cell.

If this is the case, prove it on the track. If people see you doing well and that your equipment lasts longer maybe they'll take the plunge too. Much better method than a rule change. I think lipo supporters are just dying for this same type of opportunity you aren't taking advantage of...
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:47 PM   #185
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My wife and I run the track that Doug (badassrevo) runs at. The Open electric format has REALLY helped the turnouts. As he mentioned we get a good mix of NiMH, Lipo, Brushed and Brushless.

We did a study of the laptimes on all 3 of our layouts lst season ans on all but one of them stock was faster than mod. On the layout that mod was faster it was only by about 2 seconds in 5 minutes. THis prompted us to combine the classes and create the Open format. The beauty of it is if you want to run a 5 cell NiMH then you can!!! Want to run Lipo brushless? Go for it!

Personally I have not raced electric in probably 10-15 years until last week. I boiught a Kyosho RB5 and a Novak GTB with a 10.5 Velociti brushless motor and a Maxamps 6000MAH Lipo pack. Had it not been for brushless lipo I would NOT have gotten back into electric. I have to tell ya I had a BLAST running my car!!!! One battery all day just top it off and race!!!!

Anyway, as others have mentioned there is no rule preventing anyone from running a 5 cell pack so why FORCE everyone ot run one? Let them use it as a tuning aid as Rick mentioned. Funny thing is I can't remember any big debate when 7-cell packs went by the way side. If memory serves the rules at that time stated 7 cell max. People just started running 6 cells.

Just my thoughts.

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Old 08-07-2007, 08:14 PM   #186
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Quote:
Funny thing is I can't remember any big debate when 7-cell packs went by the way side. If memory serves the rules at that time stated 7 cell max. People just started running 6 cells.
7 cells were used when they had lower capacity cells (1200-1700 mah). You couldn't go to a lower wind without dumping the battery before the race was over. When higher capactiy cells came out 1700mah+, you could run a lower wind and and still make runtime and have the same speed with 6 cells.

Technology went from using 16-18 turn motors with 7 cells in 2wd to 6 cells with 12 turn motors in 2wd.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:34 PM   #187
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F the NiMH/Li-Po debate.

There are finally Li-Ion packs available for RC applications now. There's a 4600mAh 6.6V pack available right now that looks like the size of a 6-cell sub-C pack.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=AQR400063

These + brushless = no fires, no comm lathes and the "right" voltage.

I miss electric off-road. I'm tired of spending cubic dollars on an 1/8th scale buggy. I need to see some direction in EP off-road again before I feel good about taking the plunge though.

For those of you complaining about the costs in electric? OMG go try feeding a good 1/8th scale! LOL I'm almost begging to spend only $220 on a kit, $250 on a brushless setup and $120 for a battery!
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:40 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
7 cells were used when they had lower capacity cells (1200-1700 mah). You couldn't go to a lower wind without dumping the battery before the race was over. When higher capactiy cells came out 1700mah+, you could run a lower wind and and still make runtime and have the same speed with 6 cells.

Technology went from using 16-18 turn motors with 7 cells in 2wd to 6 cells with 12 turn motors in 2wd.
We started running 6 cells in 1992-1993. The 1400scr red cells were what everyone was running and dumping was not an issue in offroad. We were running 7 cell 14 turn and then started to experiment with 6 cell and 12 and 11 turn motors. The reason why is that the 7cell packs would give you too much bottom end punch and you would lose time spinning the tires. The 6 cell and 12 turn combo moved the power band higher up and would allow the car to come off a corner easier but still have the go down the straight. I had longer run time with the 6 cell setup than I did with the 7 cell ones.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:42 PM   #189
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That looks like a good option (the battery). Nice find. I still don't know where the idea tha LiPo is so dangerous comes from. Driving yourself to the races is 100X more dangerous and complicated imo. I think this conversation is useful if only to think-tank where the standard should go given that there are now several accepted options (whether ROAR recognizes them is another issue). I too would like to see speeds come down. I race both 1/10 electric and 1/8 nitro and if I could do 1/8 all year I would not do 1/10. The difference is that you actually "drive" a 1/8 car, wheras 1/10 is an execution of timing for the most part. It takes more skill to run a 1/10th car but lets face it, the majority of the racers out there don't want to stive to the next level, they just want to have some fun racing and fun racing is easier to attain at slower speeds where people with normal reflexes and day jobs can do it.

I still vote, nimh and brusher go extinct and we move on for the same reasons I posted before and hey, you sure don't have to give up the speed with newer tech if you don't want to.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:59 PM   #190
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Fun little fact, the 3 stock classes at the IIC onroad race in Vegas has 212 confirmed entries. This is more entries than the Nats in just stock class, not to mention the other 200+ entries in other faster classes.

They offer 5 cell in all T/C classes as a TUNING OPTION

Just something to consider
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:21 PM   #191
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Sorry Frank, I disagree with you.

There is a thread on RC10B4.com where Charlie Perez states he has been testing ultra-light setups using 5 cells and a bunch of titanium and carbon. Do we really want to go down that road? Buggies will become lighter, and as a result more fragile. They will also become WAY more expensive.

1/8 scale off-road is getting more expensive now that more and more companies are getting involved. EP TC is obviously out of control in terms of cost. Please, EP off-road is in a very good place right now. Let's keep it that way.

My vote is for lipo, brushless, and 30 minute mains in ALL classes.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:36 PM   #192
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... If you go to 5 cell packs, the amperage and voltage drops to a level that is back to managable for the speedos and motors, making electronics more reliable and racing more affordable for everyone. ...
Amperage does not go down as you reduce voltage. You end up running more amperage through the speed control to get the total power level back up. That is why the 1/8th scale buggy conversions use 4s (14.8V) and 5S (18.5V) LiPo batteries: Get get the required amount of power (Volts times amps) with less amps through the speed controller. Less amps through the speed controller means less heat in the speed controller.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:41 PM   #193
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I completely agree with Frank that Stock is too fast. I just disagree that we dont need to make a change against a 30 year industry standard. I think we should make stock motors slower.

Have any of you guys seen a true beginner try to run stock TC? It is way too much to ask to have a brand new driver try to drive something that fast. Our local track rents stock TT-01s and even those are too fast for new drivers.

Maybe if we slow stock down we can get a few guys to move up to 19turn instead of tracks with all their experienced guys sand bagging a stock class cuz they are too afraid to step up and then wondering why guys who bump out of novice disappear after a few races of stock.
Maybe 5 cells for stock and 6 for 19T and above. We did it in the past with 6 and 7 cells.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:58 PM   #194
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Message received and understood!

Pro 5-Cell!

Anti Lipo.

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Old 08-08-2007, 10:45 PM   #195
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like someone said earlier is that battery makers are going to charger the same for a 5-cell and a 6-cell and they r right. i was on pro match racing.com
and the 5-cell 1.23 are 66.99 and the 1.23 6-cell are 69.99. your not goin to save money
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