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Old 08-07-2007, 11:40 AM   #151
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I am Pro-Speed Reduction...I think it will be better for our hobby in the long run.
Like you can`t put a slower motor in already ?

or even use 5 cell ?

Sorry , no need for a speed reduction , as you can reduce your speed all you want already....


Being force to still buy disposable battery`s is not going to help this sport one bit....
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:52 AM   #152
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Like you can`t put a slower motor in already ?

or even use 5 cell ?

Sorry , no need for a speed reduction , as you can reduce your speed all you want already....


Being force to still buy disposable battery`s is not going to help this sport one bit....
Funny how EP Off-Road hayday was the early to mid 90s, when a stock ran 7 cells and still went slower than the stocks of today, and mod's weren't any faster than today's 19t. Oh and btw way races were only 4 minutes.

I am not suggesting 4 minutes races, I'd love to see 10 minutes races. I think we could go to 7 right now.

I know I can slow down. Isn't the issue here. I think stock needs to be slowed. Yeah I can tell one guy that has difficulty driving to slow, but when his competition won't, it doesn't do much good. If ALL the stock and 19t guys were forced to slow just a bit, not much, just a little, so people learning to drive, learning to maximize the power they have, grip of the car, limits of the track and equipment, can enjoy racing again. Cost won't be reduce drastically, but a little. That sounds like an upside to me.

My .02
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:05 PM   #153
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dont understand why they would change other than the fact to KEEP lipo from being used.under the rules now you can use 5 or 6 cells as it is and i dont know of a matched set of batts you get in 5's they are all 4 or 6. just seems like a waste of time...slow the cars down and let more people run nitro?
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:22 PM   #154
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stock class was not allowed to use 7 cells, open class was allowed to use modified motors (15-18 turn) and 7 cells (1200mah). This was way back in the early eighties when there was only 2wd and 4wd buggy classes (no trucks).

7 cells came to a demise when battey capacity was around 1700mah and you could run a low turn modified motor and still make runtime. The racers back then either used a 10 turn with 6 cells or a 14 turn with 7 cells. The cars back then were slower because all the technology was relativly poor compared to today. The tires were hard with large pins, the cars suspension was designed for apperance more than function, the batteries were lower voltage and had higher resistance, the motors were not as efficient - but, everything was relative to the time frame.

Today's cars, batteries, motors, chargers, tires, radio equipment all surpass and handle the higher speeds than the technology of the old days. Even kids video games these days are tougher, faster, and are more involved. I don't think using less battery cells would be any more effective than trying to sell the old Atari video game Pong to todays video gamers.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:42 PM   #155
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This 5 cell argument is unreal. Is TRIPTHREAT serious? You said you talked with many people... who are these people? Why start this nonsense? Lets see, I can buy ONE lipo and not have to worry about multiple packs and short run times or I can have a half dozen 5 cell packs wearing out every few months.... All because your trigger finger spring is too tight. LEARN TO DRIVE.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:51 PM   #156
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I thought the touring car drivers went to 5-Cells to keep the motors from burning up from the voltage that the batteries have now a days when detuning the motors did not work...not to actually slow them/lap times down???

Bingo!!!!!!!!

Here was an attempt to slow things down and to cut cost.


5D 5 DEGREE STOCK MOTOR Trinity has answered the request of NORRCA and ROAR and produced the first 5 degree stock motor built to the submitted spec for this new class of racing. This stock motor meets all the NORRCA/ROAR technical specifications for a longer lasting "regulated" speed stock motor. The 5D is designed for a new stock racing class designed to cut speeds and racing costs. Specs: 27 Turn 22 awg wire, 5 degree Locked timing, (endbell and commutator), stand-up brushes, full armature blank, wet magnets.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:51 PM   #157
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This 5 cell argument is unreal. Is TRIPTHREAT serious? You said you talked with many people... who are these people? Why start this nonsense? Lets see, I can buy ONE lipo and not have to worry about multiple packs and short run times or I can have a half dozen 5 cell packs wearing out every few months.... All because your trigger finger spring is too tight. LEARN TO DRIVE.

http://www.hotrodhobbies.com/2007_Shootout_results.htm

Looks like he knows how to drive if he makes the A main in Truck and 2WD against Factory guys. What do you think?
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:54 PM   #158
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The best way to slow cars down (if that's your goal, which I think is the dumbest concept out there) extend race times to 10 or 15 or 20 minutes.

To finish, you'll have to be consistent, regardless of speed. Nimh's will make a 20 minute run on a brushless motor. Higher turn motors may be needed to finish without dumping. Long races force consistency. If guys can't finish races, they'll be forced to drive at a slower pace to allow them to finish.

Let drivers govern their own speed to match their ability, and let me drive my B4 with a 4.5 and lipos. It's up to my finger for throttle management, not my batteries, and that's the way I like it.

The biggest drawback to electric racing is 5 minute heats. One bobble, and you have no chance of first place.

Race times are the main reason i switched to 12th scale (8 minute heats) and converted a Losi 8ight to electric. Now I'm running in 15 minute mains in the club races.

Keep the rules as they are, but allow Lipo, and extend race times. Run what ya brung within the current classes, the driver who can lay down the power they have on hand will come out on top.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:55 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by scott54 View Post
This 5 cell argument is unreal. Is TRIPTHREAT serious? You said you talked with many people... who are these people? Why start this nonsense? Lets see, I can buy ONE lipo and not have to worry about multiple packs and short run times or I can have a half dozen 5 cell packs wearing out every few months.... All because your trigger finger spring is too tight. LEARN TO DRIVE.
I don't want to drop names. Doesn't matter anyway.

I just wanted to throw an opinion out there, but I am tired to being bashed on personally. I am done with this thread. Thanks to all who had helpful and constructive ideas, opinions, and points of view.

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Old 08-07-2007, 01:11 PM   #160
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The personal attacks are BS...

I think that if we can AT LEAST get brushless motors legal in ALL classes... it would be a huge step foward... Brushless seems to take some of the importance of batteries away (IE, ALWAYS having to have the BEST out there), granted they will still be inportant in stock classes.

I dont think I know enough about 5 cell (6v) to comment on that side.. but I do know that it is older technology, and I love LiPo. If I can run brushless in stock or 19t at a ROAR race... I'll deal with the old technology batteries (for that race)...
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:11 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by tripthreat View Post
I don't want to drop names. Doesn't matter anyway.

I just wanted to throw an opinion out there, but I am tired to being bashed on personally. I am done with this thread. Thanks to all who had helpful and constructive ideas, opinions, and points of view.

Frank Root
Good topic Frank! too bad people don't see what you were trying to say. They turned this into "why you want to kill Lipo thread" rather than should we still run 5 or 6 cells. Doing this wont slow down the Lipo technology. I am sure glad I don't have to race with some of you!
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:24 PM   #162
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You know, for every 'fast guy' there needs to be about 100 'slow guys who don't know how to drive' as some describe them for this hobby to work.

New guys don't leave because their stocker hung a brush or the a nimh took a dump on them. They leave because it takes about 2-3 years to be able to learn to set up and drive a car well enough to start getting some results. The learning curve is so high because the current motors and batteries, even stock, are putting out too much power.

The 'fast guys' can extract even more speed from excess power compared to the 'slow guys' creating an even larger disparity. After 6 months, the slow guy is still 2-3 laps down stuck forever in sportsmans and decides he will never be able to compete and leaves the hobby.

Its not about which battery is the best, its about how to slow things down a little.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:25 PM   #163
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...I know I can slow down. Isn't the issue here. I think stock needs to be slowed. Yeah I can tell one guy that has difficulty driving to slow, but when his competition won't, it doesn't do much good. If ALL the stock and 19t guys were forced to slow just a bit, not much, just a little, so people learning to drive, learning to maximize the power they have, grip of the car, limits of the track and equipment, can enjoy racing again...
My .02
I do not want to single out you or your post but I wanted to use one of them to state my case.

Like I said earlier, why not start a novice class for the beginners instead of limited the speeds. I do not know what classes you run, but if stock is too fast then get your local club to start a novice class.

I like running the stock class just like it is now. And if I want, (it's my decision) I can run mod. I have read all the post and have not understood why you are pushing for a 5-cell class. I also thought stock was for those whom are good drivers but not the best. I can compete with our state stock guys alot better than the mod folks and therefore the stock class is fun. I also run mod sometimes just for the fun of running with the big dogs.

I currently run both brush (stock, 4X4) and brushless (truck) and no li-po's, yet.

If you want to slow the classes down for the beginners, start a novice class for them to learn and then move up to the next class.

If stock is slowed down, then I will not have a class to run. I'm not good at running mod car (i.e. big dogs) and if stock were any slower I would not run it.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:26 PM   #164
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I completely agree with Frank that Stock is too fast. I just disagree that we dont need to make a change against a 30 year industry standard. I think we should make stock motors slower.

Have any of you guys seen a true beginner try to run stock TC? It is way too much to ask to have a brand new driver try to drive something that fast. Our local track rents stock TT-01s and even those are too fast for new drivers.

Maybe if we slow stock down we can get a few guys to move up to 19turn instead of tracks with all their experienced guys sand bagging a stock class cuz they are too afraid to step up and then wondering why guys who bump out of novice disappear after a few races of stock.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:33 PM   #165
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Our local track rents stock TT-01s and even those are too fast for new drivers.

We did something similar at our track and that is absolutely true! Ironically, By the end of the year we had 10-15 TT01 entries and could barely find 4-5 19T touring cars.
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